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Forum Guru
 
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Last Login: 19/03/2011 21:45:42
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| If I had thought my experience was completely an isolated one then I would have put it down to life experience. Clearly there are times when a prescriptive approach is appropriate but from my view not all the time. Without getting into a debate as to what a coach is, there are approaches out there that run contrary to the notion of inclusivity, often club players/social players are refered to as the 'lifeblood of the game' and more often than not spoken about in patronising terms and are taken for granted. Many age groups are run like franchises, they just carry the club's name, I've never seen our junior head at any games or training. There are coaches qualified, even on this site who could carry out this role, I would go further, the RFU should subsidize these positions, it has enough money.It would be an answer to parents/coaches monopolizing certain age groups and insure proper player development. Maybe the coaches I have spoken to have mis-interpreted there roles at L2 but there is an impression that everyone wants to be head coach, do the planning, talk about structures etc. Hence my quip about someone naming themselves 'Director of Rugby.' I have a varied sporting background. In recent years I have trained and subsequently taught martial arts, fortunately I have trained with some world class martial artists and instructors. I must make it clear that I am not world class martial artist, what I am saying is that many minority sports are structured differently, for example a modest judoka could routinely train with a world champion. Some of the instructors I have trained with have extensive knowledege of body mechanics, physiology, psychology, philosophy, you name it and often to PHD standard. They have no tertiary eductation or coaching badges coming out of their ears, just years of self-study, self-improvement. An approach which I have adopted myself, at a Premiership game last year I just watched one teams front row for the whole game, wasn't concerned about the score because I thought it would make me a better rugby coach, sometimes this approach works, sometimes it doesn't. I would also recommend the Australian Institute for Sports site. There are endless resources and experiences to utilize. I came back to rugby through my son who loves it, I was asked to join the coaching team because I think they thought I would stop asking questions.
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Supreme Being
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crookedfeed (25/08/2010)
...I came back to rugby through my son who loves it, I was asked to join the coaching team because I think they thought I would stop asking questions.What a mistake to make!  Crookedfeed, I find your thought processes refreshing... never stop asking questions! You have an advantage on most coaches, being multiskills; you can bring experiences from different environments, which are all valid. The problem is, indeed, interpretation [or misinterpretation], compounded by alterior motives and it helps to see how other NGB's down cope with it. Perhaps the guidelines are ambiguous and we all believe we have the correct understanding of the issues but all have a different understanding.
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Supreme Being
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Last Login: 04/10/2011 23:00:21
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| For my age group we have found the coaching team to be harder and perhaps more critical of our own sons. They definately don't get preferential treatment and at times when we have relected on coaching sessions and games it has been to their detriment. For example we have not started our sons or taken them off to give others a game when we could have shared it out a bit better. 2 out of the 4 would always be in a starting lineup if picking our strongest team. Not once have they complained. They also seemed to get involved with us bouncing ideas off them. We have been fortunate that this extra responsibility (perceived or real) has not been to their detriment and we have agreed that this season we're not going to do it. The 4 coaches are all ex-players.
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Forum Guru
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Last Login: 19/03/2011 21:45:42
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| Clearly different approaches are used at different times. I have found that a 'principle' based approach to coaching is sometimes beneficial. A technique is underpinned by a mechanical principle, explain the principle, unlock the technique. I was kicking a ball around with some of the forwards and explained the mechanics of the spiral kick as they had shown an interest, we now have some forwards who can out perform some our backs with regards this technique. Of course they are 'not allowed' to kick because they are forwards, we went on to do some place kicking, again some talented place kickers, anyone know why historically forwards don't place kick, apart form 1 or 2 exceptions. A respected martials exponent/thinker's motto is the 'fight is the teacher,' ie the learning process is experience driven, one punch in the face is worth countless of hours spent theorizing in the gym. As mentioned with regards academies etc. in other posts. This approach ties in closely with how any given athlete analyses their own performance, something which coaches tend to do too much for them.
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Supreme Being
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| With regards to the kicking....... it is a trap we fell into with "backs" taking the kicks..... then a couple of years ago on tour for a bit of fun we said the kicks would start at 1 and work through the team, thus the LH took the KO and the hooker took the conversion for first try the TH took a penalty kick to touch etc....... We found the best kicker we had was the TH. Before games he is included in the kicking warmup which gains some smiles until the oppo see him kick..... on tour this year he stepped up to take a kick to touch, one of the oppo said something about the fat lad thinking he could kick and then he proceeded to put a spiral done the touchline that went 50m....... great way to shut em up...... For me it's best person for the job and has nothing to do with the position they play..... as I've said in previous posts he may end up in a completely different position to the one he's playing at the moment which in all honesty is dictated by his size strength and attitude......
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Tryer (26/08/2010)
With regards to the kicking....... it is a trap we fell into with "backs" taking the kicks..... then a couple of years ago on tour for a bit of fun we said the kicks would start at 1 and work through the team, thus the LH took the KO and the hooker took the conversion for first try the TH took a penalty kick to touch etc....... We found the best kicker we had was the TH. Before games he is included in the kicking warmup which gains some smiles until the oppo see him kick..... on tour this year he stepped up to take a kick to touch, one of the oppo said something about the fat lad thinking he could kick and then he proceeded to put a spiral done the touchline that went 50m....... great way to shut em up...... For me it's best person for the job and has nothing to do with the position they play..... as I've said in previous posts he may end up in a completely different position to the one he's playing at the moment which in all honesty is dictated by his size strength and attitude...... Similar story but somewhat in reverse. I have a LHP who takes penalties and conversions. In his U16 days he was a bit "slighter" than he is now but was a natural and then received good training. He has not lost that skill.
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Last Login: 06/09/2010 12:08:52
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We have been following the Scottish Long Term Player Development Strategy for some time now, with a group of U14 boys, many of whom started at the age of 7 or 8. We tried to make the first few years fun, then concentrated on fundamental skills, then on game skills and putting them all together and we are now beginning to build up the intensity, ready for competitive play to start next year. It is really interesting to note that, while in the primary school years, the team was not 'competitive'. They won some games and lost others, but the focus of our coaches was on the skills and fun to be had from the game and their team mates. The strategy gave us pointers as to what to do and when, in terms of the physical and psychological development of the players, and we have tried, (not always successfully), to stick to these tenets. So, for example, last weekend was our first game of the U14 season. They lost the game, although this was because of two breakaway tries by a flyer of a winger and the fact that two, (yes TWO), of our players overran the dead ball line having made their way over if beautifully, in one case through the best move we have ever seen them deliver through both backs and forwards.
We could have given then a right good going over for this, and for the fact that the tackles were missed on the flyer. Instead, we praised the quality of the move, said that a breakaway is not really rugby and, anyway, can happen to anyone and have drawn lessons from the game about what we are taking to the next training session. This fits in with the philosophy of building on the outcomes of the game, praising strengths and not getting too hung up on losing at this stage. We are also considering bringing on another training session, but not to overload players. So we are thinking about bringing it in from October. We are also beginning to think about providing individual feedback for players, using a simple to understand form, so they can see where they need to improve. Finally, we will begin to bring the captain and more 'senior' players into discussions, to help them become more influential on the pitch, but once again only when they are ready.
We have, interestingly, noticed that they are beginning to get more interested in the winning and losing, more than they did in the Primary age groups, and they are very proud of their individual as well as group performances. This is still a work in progress, but we are seeing some excellent skills coming through to this transition phase. It will be really interesting to see how well they do next year, with another year of skills and performance development without winning being the be-all and end-all. And, of course, we are most interested in how they perform when they get to U18 level, which is of course three or four years away, as this will then provide them with transition into senior rugby, when winning is much more important. We believe that this unfolding case study will provide us with our own proof that you CAN over-coach, and no-one wins if you do. And such a well drilled team as described in one of the posts will become lost without their coach, and are less likely to develop 'heads up rugby' capabilities. And, of course, the evidence suggests that they will leave the game unless they are outstanding - in which case we should not be telling them what to do but getting them to work it out for themselves.
Problem is, such coaches as would be so competitive would probably not be reading this. My experience, though, is that if you are a coach that is coming from the 'Light Side', your players will get their rewards, sooner than you might expect.
John Parker
Ardrossan Academicals Youth Coordinator
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| Very interesting and topical thread for our junior, and related to another post from a coach in Scotland. My related point is that from this season, the SRU have brought in a ruling that coaches can not be on the pitch with players from as young an age as P4 (that's U9s to the rest of you ;-)). Bearing in mind that we are talking about kids who are 8 here, and who may be literally playing their first ever games of rugby, I am not at all happy about the idea of not having a coach from each side on the pitch as well as a referee. In my experience I have found it really helpful to the kids of U9/U10 age groups, and older, to have a coach within talking distance. I fully appreciate the need to let the kids make their own decisions, but feel this has to be a gradual process where the coaches take more and more of a step backwards, the older, and more competent the kids become. Obviously, the original poster was talking about older kids (U14/16) and at this age you really do want them to be trying to make their own decisions as much as possible, but IMHO there is a place for touchline coaching. Whether having two dedicated coaches simultaneously is 'over-coaching' is a question of degree - seems a bit over the top to me, and one wonders how well that side would do if they weren't there! But as I say, there is certainly a place for touchline comments/suggestions/advice even at the older age groups. Ultimately, under the LTPD guidelines, we all want to be growing great rugby players for the long term, but it is understandable that people want to achieve short term success too. It is terribly hard for a team to grow in ability and technical competence whilst at the same time losing every game! It is up to us as coaches to take not only the 'positives out of every game' as they say, but to also take the most appropriate positives out of each game. Sometimes that may be the victory itself, and other times not. Not to take this post off topic, but would appreciate other contributors thoughts as to the wisdon of the SRU move (removing coaches from the pitch at any age (well from 8 onwards) and at what age (or better, level of skill and experience) others feel it is appropriate for coaches to no longer be on the pitch with the teams.
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Supreme Being
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| Hi Cameron, in Engalnd during the tag rugby phase (U7 & U8) a coach stays on the pitch. When they transition to contact at U9..... I have opinions on this but not for this thread..... the coach is no longer allowed on the pitch but of course on the sidelines.......
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Forum Newbie
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Gentlemen I agree with a lot of your opinions and it's great to see diversity in thinking, and I think a few principles have been well covered off here in that we should be looking for our players to play "heads up rugby" and ultimately make their own decisions during matches. A little advice can be helpful from the sidelines and encouragement or praising a piece of decision making always goes down well with a player. I find this works from U7s to senior sides. Personally I have deployed this strategy for the last 10 years very successfully.
After the match or during half time is the place to ask questions from the unit leaders within the team and encourage feedback from all players. Video analysis for the older teams works very well if you are fortunate enough to have the facility. Making mentors of your better players motivates them and their team members to play to the highest possible standard more often than not. This elevated responsibility and feeling of all inclusive rugby is what keeps them at your club. By all means have the strongest team possible, but integrate all the players in the lesser teams and allow them to break through to the so called A team when you feel they are ready, likewise a regular 1st XV player must understand he/she may take a trip to the development squad to strengthen or improve a technique that might need fine tuning or recovering from injury etc ...
The Southern Hemisphere is currently better at Heads Up Rugby and decision making processes during games but the Northern Hemisphere is rapidly catching up and adopting these mechanisms and the sooner the better. It all starts at the very youngest ages where good habits are formed and life long skills are forged. Mutual respect from players and coaches is of paramount importance from the very early ages and the more successful teams and clubs will usually have these principles onboard. Having played for 38 years from U7s to Vets at school, School Boy International, University and Club level I was fortunate to have some coaches along the way with these principles. I have coached from U7s to Uni 1st XV and Colts and Ladies senior and Junior sides. I'm a L3 RFU coach.
These principles are not new and are skills deployed by the very best coaches. It is something the RFU are trying to promote in coaching courses but it will take time to be assimilated by new and existing coaches who are willing to learn and constantly challenge themselves. My concern is there are "die hard coaches" out there whom are well intentioned parents trying to help out and whom might have even reached a very high level in RFU badges (L2 or above) but are not necessarily suitable coaches. It is up to every club to enagage fully with their coaches and develop them to the best of their abilities and with a joined up style of coaching determined by the club as a whole and avoid isolated pockets of coaches just doing their own thing (often in the belief they are doing a great job and sometimes even with good results backing them up). Better to see a clear transition path for all players from U7s up to the 1st XV and even us old boys at Vets and social side as they all have valid learning experiences to pass on.txtPost_CommentEmoticon('');
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