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Last Login: 19/03/2011 21:45:42
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| With all the jargon with regards elite player pathways etc, being bandied about I would be interested in knowing what SOR's are supposed to for From what I've ascertained the term rugby athlete keeps popping up, what does that mean? Also, the term physical potential is often used in terms of selection criteria. Where does innate rugby ability fit in to this equation. English rugby historically has produced some 'big units' but often their basic skill set is poor. Also, are these SOR's a sterile environment, excluded from sporting reality. How do you learn what kind of player you are? How do learn to over come any adversity?
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Supreme Being
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It is my understanding that SoR look to take players that (by whatever criteria used - I am not a SoR coach) show the potential to become an elite player.
Thus it could be that a SoR player is actually at that stage not a county player - because he may not yet have reached/achieved/started to display the potential. And equally a county player may not be a SoR player - because it is felt that whilst he is amongst the cream of his current year group, he will not actually progress/develop much further.
didds
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| The criteria for selection within the SOR is based on at best an educated guess as to what constitutes a potential elite level player. It seems remarkable that a player could be considered too good for a SOR, a player may have made good progress quickly when in fact a SOR player could have been playing for years. Development, both physical and psychological is also unquantifiable during early adolescence. I would interested in how many players go on to this elite level.
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Supreme Being
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ask the RFU?
I can;t believe its a closely guarded secret? (but then again!)
didds
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Supreme Being
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I admit to not being totally sure of the question  ... possibly a case of 'overthinking'  Take the School of Rugby run by Essex RFU last year in association with Saracens RFU... Selection for the LACE w:st="on">LACETYPE w:st="on">SchoolLACETYPE> ofERSONNAME w:st="on"> ERSONNAME w:st="on">LACENAME w:st="on">RugbyLACENAME>ERSONNAME>ERSONNAME>LACE> was based strictly on an assessment of a player’s core skills including: > > · Running – as a ball carrier; receiver; support player>> · Game understanding – including decision-making; communication and creativity>> · Passing – technique; variation>> · Contact skills – body position; ball carrying>> > > The LACE w:st="on">LACETYPE w:st="on">SchoolLACETYPE> ofERSONNAME w:st="on"> ERSONNAME w:st="on">LACENAME w:st="on">RugbyLACENAME>ERSONNAME>ERSONNAME>LACE> was not playing position specific, although they did request such information for their records. Up to 22 boys in each age group were selected regardless of position. They sought nomination from both schools and clubs in the county. Each were allowed to nominate 3 players for U13s and two players for each, U14/15/16 age groups. County players, match/development, were assessed independently on the above criteria. The School ofERSONNAME w:st="on"> ERSONNAME w:st="on">RugbyERSONNAME>ERSONNAME> is an opportunity for elite rugby players from U-13 to U-16 to further develop their core skills. The 2009/10 programme was run during the summer holiday and the October half term break. It was an intensive programme of player development conducted by the county’s leading coaches. However, many apologies if I grabbed hold of the wrong end of the stick... or the wrong stick altogether  .
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Supreme Being
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Apologies... was not able to edit out the gremlins
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Supreme Being
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| EKW, same thing applies in Gloucester and I must say the criteria/assessment sheet available from the RFU pages is pretty good. We used it for all our players (U14's last year) to self-assess themselves and also to provide feedback to the coaches as to what they wanted us to focus on with them to hopefully address their weaknesses. It was a really good exercise for us. But to get back on thread..... the sessions weren't run at the same times as yours, which is a really good idea and was run through the season. Due to the bad weather and rearranged sessions they ended up clashing with the local County Cup competition games and that put players in an uneviable position of choosing what to. I understand it's difficult to fit things in but this season SoR dates clash again with competition dates notwithstanding bad weather may need others to be rearranged. I fully buy in to further development of core skills and identifying potential elite players but am frustrated that this can be at the expense of other club players getting a game. If they don't have big enough squads it can be difficult for some to field a team. And if they can it would be disappointing to not progress due to the loss of the better players. As we're in a bit of a rugby hotbed clubs can have players from a number of different schools and not always limited to just 3 players. We'll just have to wait to see how this affects us this year. The players that usually get selected are already living and breathing rugby and using the off season seems an better time to do this and around these parts the sessions are run by good coaches (L4) where this is their job so IMO could be better scheduled.
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| I must first make it clear that I am not connected to any SOR directly or indirectly. I must also state I sincerely hope that any player chosen fully realises their rugby potential. I also appreciate such squads will add as well as reduce their numbers.The problem arose this year from parents asking me why so and so got into county or the SOR and so and so didn't. I didn't have a answer. As a club we are left with some players who didn't make the grade and they were expected to, we have players chosen for the SOR who can't get into the A side, we also have talented players in county who believe they are better than SOR players. The players in the main have been fine about the whole process, it is some of the parents and our case the parents/coaches. What isn't to my knowledge on the form is how long players have been playing the game, some SOR players have been playing since they were 6 whilst some chosen for county have only been playing for a couple of seasons. How many years therefore do you have to play to show some potential. Historically as a sporting nation we haven't done that well in developing talent, I recently spoke to a ex-footballer who was released from a football academy at age 16, he was signed up at 9 yrs old. He believed he played his best football at 12yrs old and was kept in the academy as the coaches hoped he could rediscover his former form. He no longer is involved in football in any capacity as it was all or nothing for him. If you factor in the physical nature of rugby and psychological development I would be interested in how in the early teenage years how such things can be measured. The core skills can surely be developed by good club coaches. It is also noticeable within the academy system their close relationship with certain top rugby playing schools. If you have a dream to play for England do you need to attend one of these. My son's school doesn't have a big enough grass area to even mark out a pitch, the nearest public school in my area has 12 rugby pitches. I cannot believe in the 21st century that rugby in England is still perceived as solely a middle class sport. My fear for some players and in some cases their parents is that if you are not good enough for a SOR then that is it with regards future involvement in rugby.
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Supreme Being
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| This is a difficult one. In the case of Essex, they make it quite clear that, "It is important for coaches, players and parents to understand that the School of Rugby is not in itself a means of achieving representative honours for Essex. It is about developing individual skills in an environment where players can benefit not just from the best coaching, but also from training with their peers at the best available facilities. The School of Rugby is an innovative and rewarding experience." I think the problem may be in trying to put the Schools of Rugby in some kind of progressional pathway... they, to me, are a separate entity. As for how long? There is no certain measure. I have seen players who have played from the age of 6 and, although they enjoy their game and will always be included, will never 'excel'. Harder if their parent is the coach. Harder still, if their parent is the coach living through their child! Similarly, I have seen players at the age of 12 being introduced to the game at Secondary School, who show great potential within months [going back to posts with respect to overcoaching and 'horses for courses']. We also have the 'peaked by Friday' scenario, whereby players develop earlier then their peers and appear head and shoulders above them, only to find their peers overtaking them the following season. This is perhaps the hardest scenario for the player to deal with. I have also known players who have played since the age of 6 and pootled along until 17 when they suddenly burst onto the field, as if they experienced an total metamorphis over the off season... never write a player off  Unfortunately, the boys are human [although some times I wonder... especially on tour ] and do not come in neat, tidy boxes... and they never behave according to the text books .
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Supreme Being
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It is my understanding that failure to be selected by SoR SHOULD be accompanied by an explanation letter from the SoR. It should NOT be the responsibility of the club/school coach to know. If no such explanation has been forthcoming then somebody (which might have to be the club/school coach :-( ) will need to chase it up.
didds
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