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In a recent game my players in defence were getting penalised for handling the ball on the ground at the tackle
Scenario is
player A tackles low
player B arrives while the tackle is in progress and the opposition player is on his way to the ground
He helps to put him on the ground by grabbing around the shoulder area so that as soon as the opposition player hits the ground player B is on his feet and squatted over him with hands on the ball to jackal it
To me I see nothing wrong with this as the opposition player is required to release the ball as soon as he makes contact with teh ground and if he doesn't it should be a free kick (in Oz) to my side
I had a long chat with the ref the other night and he explained he had been told the tackled player should be allowed the opportunity to place the ball back to assist his side in continuing play and my player B was stopping him from doing this (by trying to pick up the ball)
He also said that assuming player A still has a hold of the opponent when player B is trying to steal the ball (normally the case as it is instantaneous) then player B's presence has made the tackle into a ruck and therefore cannot handle the ball on the ground
My only arguments to that were that he should check out the tackle situation in Super Rugby in particular players like McCaw because if these interpretations were applied he would be out of a job and secondly that he shouldn't let the technicalities of the law get in the way of a good game
He took what I said on Board and also agreed to bring this point up at the next QLD Referees meeting so I am interested to see what the response is as I have been coaching this technique to the second man into the tackle
Thoughts please
Angus
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| Assuming that the second tackler has released the tackled player and is on his feet then I see no problems with this. I guess, however, that the second tackle and rip of the ball are happening in one action and the ref is seeing no attempt to release the tackled player. Hence the FK and just in my opinion. For what it is worth I believe that the hands in the ruck arguament is rubbish as with the tackled player still on the floor no ruck can form until another player from his team joins in.
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Forum Guru
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The ref's theory is that 2 of our players and one of theirs constituted a ruck as both are in contact with the ball carrier - unless the first tackler has released the ball carrier after making the tackle and before player B attempts the jackal
Interesting point about player B having to release the ball carrier before attempting the jackal though
I think my main argument is all these things happen so quickly how can a ref expect or be expected to observe and work out what order they happen in
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Supreme Being
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Angus (24/05/2009)
The ref's theory is that 2 of our players and one of theirs constituted a ruck as both are in contact with the ball carrier - unless the first tackler has released the ball carrier after making the tackle and before player B attempts the jackal
interesting... given the definition of a ruck is one player from each side in contact over the ball on the floor... nothing about a ball carrier there at all.
didds
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Good point didds and one I will be sure to bring up
Thanks
Angus
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| Strange one this. So long as the tackler, on the floor, isn't preventing the tackled player playing theball i can't see a problem. Release and move away is what we want the tackler to do, as a referee. However, the second player (B) isn't classed as a tackler and therefore would need to enter the tackle through the ''gate'', still if he does this i don't see a problem, as a ruck can't be formed unless you have a player from each side in contact over the ball on the ground. The player on his feet, as long as he is deemed on-side etc, no ruck, has all the rights over the player on the floor.
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Thanks for the feedback and I will query both refs at our games today and see what their take is on this to establish if it was one ref with this interpretation or an across the board conception
Cheers
Angus
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| Just found the relevant law that covers releasing the player before playing the ball: 15.6 (c) Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. Those players may then play the ball providing they are on their feet and do so from behind the ball and from directly behind the tackled player or a tackler closest to those players' goal line.
Penalty: Penalty Kick
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Forum Guru
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So, it sounds like the 3rd man in (jackal) has full rights to the ball if he's on his feet, and the tackler has released.
Nipper
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| Thanks for that Bunniksider much appreciated
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