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Forum Guru
 
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Last Login: 15/11/2009 23:56:08
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| I would be interested to hear other coaches views regarding the use of punishment e.g. press ups, sit ups etc when poor form has been shown in training sessions. I ask in particular with regard to Under 19's rugby and younger. Personally I do not find any merit in this practice. I would rather encourage and reinforce good practice. Jonesy
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Junior Member
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Last Login: 08/12/2009 23:59:16
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I think it's important to identify WHY performance is below your expectations.
Are players bored?
Do they not understand what's expected of them?
Is the drill physically too difficult?
Are they tired?
Etc Etc
I don't think punishment, like press ups, is an effective tool to respond to many of these issues.
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 24/11/2009 16:47:44
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IMHO there is no situation where you should punish poor performance. Poor behaviour is a different matter entirely, and something we have to deal with in our U13s. Not something I would expect from U19s but I am not speaking from experience with that.
If you really are talking about poor performance then my approach would initially be a word aside with an individual. If its all of them, then I would be looking at my own coaching and seeing if that needs changing.
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Forum Member
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| I'm not sure it's neccesarily that serious. It can just be used as a bit of fun, to reinforce the aims of each session. Self-punishment for dropping balls, throwwing bad passes, is just a way of making sure that players are paying attention to their own performance. It's easy for some players to drift through such practices without concentrating. I don;t think players resent it - I assume here that the 'punishment' isn't harsh -just 10 press ups done while the drill/game is progressing. Of course, it is just one method that can be used, but I don't think it is necessarily negative, or the sign of bad coaching.
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Forum Newbie
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Ah, yes Iolo, I see what you're saying.
I perhaps took the word punishment a bit too literally and didn't see it in the manner which you have suggested. In that context we usually make them 'drop and do 5' and it has become a bit of a standing joke in our group, but because we consider it a penalty, or a forfeit I didn't see it quite as a punishment.
The idea that mistakes invoke a penalty or forfeit is a view that can be taken, but it is easiest introduced as such at the beginning of the season, so that it is part of the training regime. Indeed, that is what we did at the start of this season - we came to a loose agreement/acceptance in conjunction with the lads of our U13s that this would be part of the 'contract' between them and us as coaches.
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Supreme Being
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Out of interest do the coaches have to drop and give the lads 5 etc when they (ie the coaches) stuff up?
didds
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| We link the warmup sessions and concentration. As our U13's are now familiar with our warmup sessions they can sometimes go into auto-pilot which they can also do in a game when they are going from one thing to another that they are familair with. We always say that concentrating and thinking is a challenge for them as when this lapses this is when mistakes can happen and they may give away points. As the warmups intensify (speed and small variations) they need to concentrate more. If a ball is dropped, which it invariably is - they are 13, we use the line of a try given away so an excercise, pressups etc, of 5..... when the next drop happens another 5 so then they do 10, we then switch to doing something (wrestling) for 15 seconds etc which can be a bit of fun as well There are two benefits, they are incentivised to concentrate hard for 15 minutes or so, and if they do the excercise they are also warming up other muscles (they might not realise this).
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Forum Guru
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| Many of your answers are very interesting, however punishment or forfeits can be seen as a negative and as a result can have a un-motivating effect. As a coach especially at youth and junior your first priority is to motivate and build composure and confidence. Personally letting players do press ups, sit ups as warm up but disguising them as punishments or forfeits has no positive benefits. Whilst carrying out warm ups and explaining the whys and wherefore of those exercises are educational and therefore positive. Would it not be better to react in a positive manner e.g. if a ball is dropped then the players involved must react in a positive manner by dropping on the ball and presenting to the support player via a pop pass or setting up a mini ruck etc. This would be more game related and therefore coaching the players to think correctly under pressure (t-cup).
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Forum Member
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| Very true........... but depending on their mood they also drop the ball deliberately because they enjoy the wrestling (which can be linked to game situations) and it's fun particularly in the mud...... they also challenge us to see how long it will take before they wrestle. We both (kids and coaches) benefit from it........ except I always end up on the loosing end when it's my turn wrestling the ex-FR coach...... It's always difficult to explain, sometimes as they say you need to be there.
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Junior Member
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Great topic.
I've never been one who though 'punishments' were a good motivator for improved performance. As a teenager, my club coach used this method and I was always a bit hesitant to be intense and risky when about to receive/receiving/with ball for fear of dropping and the harsh penalty. I've never used them, and just let things go with words telling them to focus, be ready, look, communicate, etc.
But I was shocked one year when a group of women I was coaching actually DEMANDED to have them. I asked the full team, not all together so as to avoid peer pressure from the demanding group, what their opinions were on this and enough didn't want it, so I didn't cave to the requests.
What this topic can be expanded to is how different players motivate themselves and how we can help this. In the above situation, I again let the odd drop go always encouraging and giving constructive feedback, but what I found helped was when the errors became more frequent, everyone benefited from a 'refocusing timeout' of sorts. When several occur, I stop the drill, bring everyone into a huddle and have them just relax for a few seconds, ask them to breathe, clear their minds, etc. Then we have a quick chat about what's going wrong, no accusations allowed, using indirect assessments on the technique/skill or saying 'we need to...' If they don't know what's wrong, then I lead them toward the answer with questions that get them to realise the issue(s).
More often than not, they go right back into the drill and dramatically improve performance. Now this is a strategy that I've found works with women, and occasionally with young men, but I still know there are a large number of boys/men, and a few women, who prefer to the 'tough love' approach. Early on, I try and get a feel for each player's mental strength and how they are best motivated (while not always obvious through conversation, I hand out a pre-season questionnaire with a lot of vital info, but also how one is best motivated, their goals, etc.). For me, players seem to either want a 'hug' or a 'kick up the arse' - one of my best ever fly halves only responded to empathetic positive encouragement, and even a harsh tone would crush his spirit; but a hard-nosed no. 8 wouldn't respond to anything but a strong tone and demand to do 'x, y, z' that, for him, fired him into action.
While I still won't use team punishments to get results, I will occasionally throw out a strongly delivered constructive declaration to fire some up, while offering my typical soft-spoken positive encouragement and specific instruction to the rest.
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