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Supreme Being
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Last Login: 13/06/2009 17:01:50
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I stanbd corrected - Ruckoff is correct in that the youth regs do not mention handoffs at all, and thus as such matches are played under the standard lotG - so handoffs are permitted "anywhere" (notwithstanding a refrees unilateral decsion to disagree).
didds
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Forum Member
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Last Login: 02/07/2009 13:09:18
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| Thanks guys especially ruckoff for the definitive answer to the original question. Ferret
U14s Backs Coach
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Forum Newbie
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| Your welcome Ferret, we had this issue with teams and refs with their own opinion on what was permitted when our team moved up to Under 13's. We had practiced hand offs in training whist still Under 12's, because it can come as a shock to get handed off full in the face for the first time and wanted our players to be prepared for it. On a side note are hand offs legal in the adult game?? There is no law specific to the conduct of a hand off but law 10 forbids certain actions e.g. the use of a punch (closed fist) on an opponent and a 'straight arm' tackle with an open hand. By deduction therefore one can assume that a bent arm and an open hand that does not 'strike' an opponent is probably acceptable. Leading or striking with the forearm probably isn't. But Law 10 also states - Law 10.4 (e) [...] Playing a player without the ball is dangerous play. Is that not handing off?? 
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Forum Member
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| the laws are a nightmare aren't they ... no wonder we have to rely so much on a referee's interpretation ... as a fairly recent returnee to "hands on" involvement in the game as a coach, having not played for many years, the book of rules is never far away from me I am sure others will have more to say on this. Come on refs I know you are out there! Ferret
U14s Backs Coach
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Forum Member
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more opinions that dont actually count!
it does not matter if you think its legal or not, all that counts is if the ref allows it.
otherwise we become those rude coaches, that on another thread, we all say we dislike.
it might be an idea to make out a list for the referee to take a peek and see what he will or wont allow.
sounds fanciful but i think it would be far better than feeling superior at the bar when your team has been beaten.
why do we need a referee to come on here and tell us a definitive rule when the next ref at the next game will say something different. i dont think you get/can get/do get, standard rules, its a bit of a farce.
this whole game is based on what you can get away with and having the sense to read the ref.
(never any rudeness intended )
we lost a cup final with a tart of a ref, it was almost like watching netball;it was so different to what we were used too.
there was a lot of wittering about bias amongst the parents.
i was as popular as a fart in a sleeping bag when i suggested that the boys had lost because they didnt read the ref and would learn more from the defeat!
harsh but true..
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Forum Newbie
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| more opinions that dont actually count! Not true, they are facts based on the laws of the game! If the the ref deviates from the these he is wrong. True there is nothing you can due about this during a match but you can point out the error in a respectful manner without being a rude coach. You should always coach your players to play within the laws of the game, that is what the original question was about.If you don't know the laws then you are going to struggle and so will your players. We coach to play very hard but also very fair with the upmost respect to the referee!
I suspect you lost a cup game because you didn't score as many points as the other team.
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Junior Member
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Last Login: 19/05/2009 20:09:04
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| As a new ref, and a coach, the idea of both is to let the players play a safe and enjoyable game of rugby. If you are at the professional level of playing, coaching and refereeing then you might have a valid arguement, but may I suggest that for most on this forum that is not yet the case? Referees are coached to use their best interpretation of a situation and to try if possible to let the game flow. if the players can't do that then the referee has certain facilities that he can use such as allowing advantages to go on, stopping the game, or resorting to cards. The ultimate sanction is to top a game if necessary but who would like to explain that away at the next committee meeting? I find that the happiest players and coaches are those that see a CONSISTENT referee and one who COMMUNICATES with all involved, players and coaches alike through correct signals and verbal contact. To "play the referee" is to quickly understand how he interpretates the game and the players approach to that game. If you play hard, and to win, but in a manner that is safe and enjoyable then I say get on with it. If you pla
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Junior Member
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| finger error from the last post, but if you play to win at all costs then hopefully the referee and other coaches will pull you up. Remember, this is a contact sport and people are hurt both by mistake but also through intent. It ios the inten that should be removed from the game. Regards
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Forum Member
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Ruckoff (22/10/2008)
more opinions that dont actually count!
Not true, they are facts based on the laws of the game! If the the ref deviates from the these he is wrong. True there is nothing you can due about this during a match but you can point out the error in a respectful manner without being a rude coach.
You should always coach your players to play within the laws of the game, that is what the original question was about.If you don't know the laws then you are going to struggle and so will your players.
We coach to play very hard but also very fair with the upmost respect to the referee!
I suspect you lost a cup game because you didn't score as many points as the other team.
your suspicion is correct
that said, it is hard to take when the ref tells the boys that, they are not allowed to pop from the floor or that the tackling player has to roll away and cannot get to his feet and steal the ball from a player who is placing' and waiting for support from his own side.
the boys school side has a county coach, several county players and one who has already played at an schoolboy international level.
the coaches from our club, where most of the boys play, are taught by the same coach who has sent two young players to a premiership club, in two years.
between them, they have a fair idea of whats going on. ( our age group have four referees amongst the dads)
i wanted to wring the refs old fashioned neck that day but instead i bought him a beer and said ''well done sir''.
my moaning would achieve nothing (it is not my place to do it anyway)
interestingly, this ref allowed hand offs.
i dont agree with this 'rules are rules' mentality, i know that on paper it cannot be argued with but in practice, it certainly can.
far better to learn and play the referee than to let the game slip by, and have that awful feeling of all that work and effort counting for nothing. better to learn all aspects of the game.
i must add that i feel i have only seen one referee that was openly bias but that was an adult game and it turns out that our flanker was fighting and had been sent off previously by this referee... our flanker didnt have the sense to keep it shut' and was too obvious in his cheating.
(my club,not my team) i would have replaced the flanker rather than suffer a certain loss but again, it wasnt my call.
im not advocating not learning the laws but i dont see it as simply as others seem too.
i see my way as being pragmatic.
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Forum Member
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i tried to edit.
our club coach has sent two of our older lads to a premiership club..
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