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Forum Guru
 
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Last Login: 11/11/2009 12:22:33
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| one for the refs out there especially In a game yesterday one of our flankers was on the receiving end of a very effective hand-off to his face. Fortunately it resulted in no more than a severe nosebleed and him having to leave the pitch for the rest of the game. We raised this with the opposing coach who said the same had been done to them recently, at the time they had checked with the ref and were told there was nothing in the continuum to prevent it. We also asked the (independent) referee yesterday, who confirmed this. Is this right? It seems incredibly dangerous to me given the potential for neck injury. And of course the boy's mother, who witnessed the whole thing, will no doubt now be wondering if her son should continue to play if he is in danger of this happening deliberately. any views welcomed - cheers, Ferret
U14s Backs Coach "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England" (Sir Winston Churchill)
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Forum Member
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i dont know that answer but i'll bet that boy will learn to keep his head a bit lower.
due respect to you m8 but 14yr olds fought in the first world war. society says they are boys but nature says they are young men.
getting a handoff in the face means you are doing something wrong. im really concerned that lots i read on here seems to teach the boys to be 'tarts'..
nothing teaches a youngman quicker than pain.
another point, i thought you said the referee was always right! is that except when someone get handed off?
cant have it both ways.
for what its worth, my son gave and got handoffs at u14 level.
it was never pinged by any referees.
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Forum Guru
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Last Login: 11/11/2009 12:22:33
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| Thanks for your views, I really do appreciate them although I can't say I agree with them all. Maybe he should have been lower. Doesn't going lower only make it more likely you will get the hand in the face rather than the chest? I take your point about WW1 and society's norms, however this is the 21st century and rugby is a game played for enjoyment. In the 19th century boys were sent down coalmines, and before that African children were enslaved, but I don't think anyone would say those facts should inform how we treat children today. Btw I don't think I ever said the referee is always right, only that his decision is final. Cheers Ferret
U14s Backs Coach "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England" (Sir Winston Churchill)
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Supreme Being
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Last Login: 05/03/2010 11:46:41
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| I watched a U13 game yesterday which was extremely well reffed. One player used a very powerful hand off and twice was pinged for impacting with the head. I think the ref was wrong in terms of the laws of the game, but he was consistent and explained his actions clearly. I would agree that the tackler exposed his head to this sort of hand off. If you are at hip height, it takes some hand off to be dangerous. I know that inside the Unions there is debate on handing off. Overall, though I think Weathergirl might be a bit hammer and nut in his approach to the game, it is true to say that players need to be "hard" to play the game, though not reckless. If you can't take the rough and tumble then perhaps you are not quite suited to the game.
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Forum Member
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[b]Ferret
I take your point about WW1 and society's norms, however this is the 21st century and rugby is a game played for enjoyment. In the 19th century boys were sent down coalmines, and before that African children were enslaved, but I don't think anyone would say those facts should inform how we treat children today.
Btw I don't think I ever said the referee is always right, only that his decision is final.
Cheers Ferret
i was trying to make a point, rather than score one as such 
i try not to treat the lads as children' i try my best to treat them as young men. i only treat the ones who act like children, as children.
our kids live in an overprotected world imho. they live in a world of Ipods and being driven to school. they are all better at playstation rugby than actual rugby.
i happen to think that rugby is like life. my part in this is to take them from the 'mrs didds handshake whilst looking in the eye', to deciding if they want to play as an adult.
small things like jacket and tie after league matches with clean shoes and not white trainers.
being at training before the coach, trying to get the boys to get a warm up done before the coaches start with them. looking at the demeanor of the opposition, the sun and wind for kicking options.
leaving that piggin mobile in their bag 
getting them to do,and think, for themselves.
i cannot stand the attention seeking boy who needs to be helped off the pitch after the slightest knock but is running around after the game (not your lad) but we all know the type.
i dont like the type who wants to play flanker because it means he doesnt have to put his head in the scrum.
i apologise in advance but i think that you are partly to blame for that boys bloody nose.
i assure you that no insult is intended but in your answer it shows me that you do not coach your boys to get low enough.
i dont offer opinion in a scrum other than to ''stick your bum out like a page three girl''
i only played there a few times and was rolled over because i didnt know what i was doing.
that hurt a lot and it made sure i listened to the gnarled old gits who showed me how..
i see your lads/flankers nose is a coaching opportunity, particularly if it is on video.
boys learn quick, but they learn quicker if it hurts if they get it wrong.
hope your boy is well and back next week, wiser and tougher.
(there are no sly digs in here (im not a flanker your post simply allowed me to speak up.
i know im not alone in thinking like this at my club)
btw, i am not a tough prop type who thinks it was better in mahdaye.
i dont like the handoff used as a punch/dig. i dont agree with a smack to unsettle.
rugby is like life, we learn and deal with what comes..
sorry for the waffle
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i did try to edit some but i was not allowed.
please bear with me
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Forum Guru
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Last Login: 11/11/2009 12:22:33
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| Wow. You have some strong opinions there and believe it or not, actually I do agree with most of them. For the record the boy was fine, he was agitating to go back on before the end with his nose stuffed with tissue paper(no doubt so he could return the favour!) and he certainly isn't a wimp. He plays flanker because he is too small to play front or second row. He probably isn't the ideal flanker type but at U14 we play what we have, and he is pretty good I can always accept criticism but if the players all did what we coached them, our job would be a lot easier. And I agree with what you say about kids in general, but I don't see that in my boys who turn out in all weathers and cheerfully face up to guys twice their size. Thanks for being so frank, that's the benefit of this forum after all! Best - Ferret
U14s Backs Coach "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England" (Sir Winston Churchill)
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Supreme Being
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We raised this with the opposing coach who said the same had been done to them recently, at the time they had checked with the ref and were told there was nothing in the continuum to prevent it.
Errr... au contraire. Presuming you mean this game was played in England the Continuum specifically states that handoffs are NOT permitted.
And (I am reminded on the RFU forums) the youth regs also speciofically state that it IS permitted.
Reality is AIUI some refs will permit h/off to the head area. others will not, purely on their own interpretation of "dangerous play".
You play the ref, or better still check with him/her before the match.
didds
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Forum Newbie
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| It was my impression that full hand off in the face were not permitted by the RFU at junior level. Hands offs in the chest from U13s level upwards.
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Junior Member
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| The RUGBY CONTINUUM covers players Under 7-8, Under 9-10, and Under 11-12 and clearly states no hand offs permitted. The discussion here was regarding Junior players - under 13's and above, this is covered by the UNDER 19 VARIATIONS. The UNDER 19 VARIATIONS make no mention of hand offs, so there is no variation from the adult game. Hand offs to the face are allowed at this age group. It is a myth that you can only hand off to the chest. Although the referee can stipulate before any game what he/she thinks is dangerous regarding this area. Under 14's Coach
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