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Difference Rules between club and school... Expand / Collapse
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Posted 19/10/2008 16:55:50
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Being a PE teacher and a Rugby Coach to both an under 12 and a senior side and having played rugby for far too many years.  I am becoming more and more frustrated about the different rules applied in different areas and different competitions.(Nothing to do with ELV's)

Namely, under 12 rugby at school level is a 15 a side game, with hand offs allowed, as well as some or all of the new ELV's being applied including dragging down the mauls. (scrums 8 man, number 8 being allowed to pick up , scrag tackles allowed etc).  This is also played a full size pitch

Yet at club rugby, where you have the boys who wish to play rugby voluntarily, the game is 13 a side (6 man scrums, no number 8 pick up) etc.  Being religiously applied.  And the fact that it is played on half a pitch.

There has to be some consistency in the rules, as many of my players are confused about what they can and can't do.  Why are schools not governed by the Rugby Continuum, especially when numerous schools we have played the teachers always state that they can not referee as they are not confident enough to do this, but have coached/ taught the students at their school.

My boys come to me on Sunday morning, saying the are allowed to lift legs in mauls, collaspe mauls by dragging it down, and hand off to chest.  I then spend the first half hour of training breaking these bad habits, so that when we play 'club' rugby we are not penalised off the park.

The boys I coach do not play at private/ public schools but at local comprehensives.  Pleased don't get me wrong it is vitally important that the boys play rugby at school and at clubs, but there does need to be uniformity in the rules.

Post #1368
Posted 20/10/2008 13:36:23
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I agree that there is confusion with the age groups between school and club. I coach U7 & U8 at club level and therefore tag rugby, my boy is in Yr 3 at school and they will start to learn tag rugby in years 5 & 6 which is U10 & U11 at our club.

By the time he starts rugby lessons at school he will have been involved with full contact for 2 years and will not want to go back to tag at school. But more importantly, for those kids at school who want to learn more about rugby after their first tag lesson in yr 5 they are  thrown into full contact at their local club with kids who have been learning for a couple of years.

There does need to be some link between the schools and the clubs, with possibly more direct involvement between each other.

Post #1373
Posted 20/10/2008 15:48:04
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Why are schools not governed by the Rugby Continuum, especially when numerous schools we have played the teachers always state that they can not referee as they are not confident enough to do this, but have coached/ taught the students at their school.



.... because I am told that " the schools" claim that ESRFU is the senior/older body than the RFU so it up to the RFU to cow tow to their interpretation.

So its either the schools that are obstinate, or the RFU. take your pick.

Shame the adults cannot sort out their differences for the benefit of the youngsters.

T'was ever so I guess

didds
Post #1378
Posted 21/10/2008 19:44:22
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The RFU has stated that no U18 games or below can pull down a maul so no club or school players should be pulling down mauls at junior levels. Hand offs  ( not in the face) are only allowed in 15 a side games( so U13s at club & Year 7 or U12s at school.)

I think the RFU has asked the schools rugby  to tow the line re continum but i think the schools esp the "public  rugby schools" like their independance!!.At club level i think at U12s  it is perhaps a question of space at some clubs. As if U12s went to full side pitch many clubs would struggle to find another full size pitch on sundays. I think that school rugby at year 7 should reflect  the club rugby esp for boys ( and girls) whose first experince of contact rugby is at starting secondary school.

I am a referee, U12 club coach and help a year 8 school side

Post #1387
Posted 22/10/2008 11:26:52
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salopsaint (21/10/2008)
The RFU has stated that no U18 games or below can pull down a maul so no club or school players should be pulling down mauls at junior levels.


What is ESRFU's take on this though?

didds
Post #1392
Posted 22/10/2008 16:21:43


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Isnt this so typical; of whats wrong with our game!? At the risk of being accused of getting on my hobby horse AGAIN, this is what i've been banging on for a while... the 'game' has so many versions & varieties, local interpretations & idiosyncracies, incompetent coaches & referees... these last few months, all i've been hearing (MAINLY from professional clubs, Unions & coaches in the NH mind!) is how bad the ELVs are but THATS not the problem- its all of the above! I mean look at Football/ soccer (& it PAINS me to use that AWEFUL sport as an example!) they have ONE game- regardless of country, level of play & hemisphere... & while I acknowledge the safety aspects & appropriate variations for those reasons in Rugby, we still have an INCREDIBLY fractured game...& more than anyone else, the IRB are at fault for this IMHO.

Rugbia floreat ubique
Post #1403
Posted 23/10/2008 14:53:45
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The basic problem is that schools have to make PE programmes for all - whether their students have played rugby or not, and the huge majority of school children will not have played rugby in any shape or form. Thereafter follows 5 or 6 weeks of once or twice a week lessons, in which the students MAY remember their kit ( and almost certainly will not have mouth guards), MAY attend every lesson, MAY remember what was done in the previous lesson, and may have a desire to do more than "get" someone else in class.

Their teachers may not be rugby specialists, and they may not have been able to take any RFU proficiency courses. They WILL have had to include risk assessment in their written lesson plans, and this is not easy when planning TACKLING (potentially the most dangerous of all activities), RUCKING (try telling an OFSTED inspector that "taking someone out" is a safety activity!), and the SCRUM (try telling an OFSTED inspector that you plan to SAFELY have 16 players pushing neck to neck against each other!). Playing and safety equipment at most schools will be minimal or non-existent, and probably extremely old!

Sport (including rugby) is making a belated comeback at schools, but it is a long way from the benefits offered by most clubs. Be patient, cross your fingers, badger you MP, and maybe one day, the circumstances and rules will somehow make sense.

SteveJ
Post #1413
Posted 24/10/2008 21:54:20
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Hi Guys

Just thought i'd throw this one in for good measure. Here in Wales school and club rugby are exactly the same.

I will confess however that some schools will only do tag at yrs 5 & 6 but that is down to them and not a governing body ruling

Post #1418
Posted 27/10/2008 11:46:29
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It isn't just the rules that annoy me, it's the number of games. A club player can play 17. A school player can play 17. A player who plays for school and club can play 34. How is that justified?

The other thing that occurs to me is New Zealand. I keep being told they grade their junior players by size and weight, not age. Seems to work for them so could we give that a chance? As things are at the moment we waste a lot of small players every year as they lose confidence or get battered. I know rugby is a contact sport, but it's also about building a strong game that's accessible to all isn't it?

http://rugbycashandcanada.blogspot.com/

Post #1424
Posted 27/10/2008 13:27:30
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Don't get me started on the subject of the demands of the school team vs the club team ... !

As far as grading by size is concerned, it is an interesting concept, and I can see the theoretical attraction but I personally couldn't support it.

For one thing I think the transition for existing teams would be a disaster. I am privileged to help coach a fantastically tight-knit club squad, many of whom have known each other and played rugby together for half their lives. To split them up and spread them over two or three different teams is just unthinkable.

The other thing is that IMO, rugby is played with the mind as much as the body. Like it or not it is a complex game, and at mini and junior level the difference in thinking power between the years is very noticeable. To my mind it would just be swapping one set of imbalances for another.

Cheers Ferret

Cheers - Ferret
U16s Backs Coach

"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England" (Sir Winston Churchill)

Post #1425
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