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Supreme Being
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Last Login: 13/06/2009 17:01:50
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It is a mature response that counts, especially when we are dealing with young players.
Absolutely Dan. Spot on.
As coaches it is possibly easy to forget, or even be ignorant of the fact that whether we intend to or not, we are very possibly role models to the young players that we coach. Our actions, deeds and words may well be influential in their personal development in the same way that other adults that feature in their lives are - teachers, parents etc. It may well be not just the physical aspects of rugby that we are teaching them - behavioural patterns, social interaction and wider "life skills" may be being passed on also.
My wife coaches U7 and U8 tag ... and one of her outcomes for her players is to look people in the eyes and smile when shaking hands (as opposed to looking at the floor!). Rugby skill? - not per se. Life skill? - absolutely! Important - definitely! (in our opinion - natch!)
In summary - you MIGHT be the only person (maybe) in a young persons life showing them a positive, respectful and decent demeanour. You might be the one that makes a difference to them.
And if you are not the only person... how lucky is that player then to have more than one person helping them mature into a decent, sociable and respectful human being.
didds
didds
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Forum Member
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Last Login: 02/07/2009 13:09:18
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| Thought I had posted my last on this topic ... but had to say how I agree with what didds has said, very eloquently put as well. I am very very conscious of my position of responsibility to my boys and their parents, to be a positive role model and to be aware that my influence may well extend far beyond the game itself. Our players are from all walks of life and some have difficult home circumstances. It's not their fault but some do lack positive male role models. You have to earn their respect and a coach who doesn't stand up for his team won't keep it; but there are ways of doing that which set them a good example of how to deal with conflict, how to speak civilly to someone who doesn't agree with you, and let's face it, how to deal with unfair situations and outcomes, because life is full of those. It's all part of the job!! Ferret
U14s Backs Coach
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 27/11/2008 14:22:14
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| I AGREE WITH THE FERRET. EXAMPLE IS ALL IMPORTANT. COACHES, PARENTS, SENIOR PLAYERS AND.... LET'S NOT FORGET, REF'S ALSO. DISTRICTS THAT FEEL ON BLANCE THAT THEY HAVE POOR REF'S MUST ACT. THE OPTIONS ON HOW TO DO THIS ARE CLEARLY DOWN TO THEM. THE ROUTE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE IS NO RECOURSE TO THE REF AND NO FORMAL MEANS OF EVALUATING POOR REF'S (AND GOOD ONES TOO). A SCORECARD MUTUALLY AGREED BY ALL CLUBS WOULD BE A START AS THIS WILL SHOW LONG TERM TRENDS FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES.
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Supreme Being
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Last Login: 01/07/2009 12:18:18
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| A scorecard can work if everyone buys into the scheme. The scorecard is also a two way process. Problems often arise at lower levels that one coach is effectively marking another coach on his refereeing skills, and the other coach who reffed on the coaching skills. I can see all sorts of misunderstandings arising from a written record. Again, we need to take this in context of the games we play...up to U10 the ref is a guider and helps the players understand the laws as well ensure safe play. In which case the coaches on both teams are supporting each other and therefore a card system would not be appropriate. At U12 and above, where there are cups (in the WRU) then this would be more appropriate on a weekly basis. Tournaments, where there are neutral referees, might have more recourse to cards. Perhaps we could have cards for all the stakeholders. I have witnessed some pretty poor behaviour over the seasons from parents and other coaches, and this might be useful as well!
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Supreme Being
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Last Login: 02/07/2009 11:13:05
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| With practically every other team sport looking at rugby as the benchmark for solid behaviour and respect, I think we have to set the standard. Right or wrong he or she is the ref, applying the Laws. Right or wrong you abide by their decisions, whether player, parent, fan or coach. As Didds says, it's one of the most valuable life lessons, because everyone ALWAYS thinks they're more sinned against than sinner. That's life. Get on with the game.
Toby Curthoys
Publisher, Better Rugby Coaching www.betterrugbycoaching.com
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Supreme Being
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With practically every other team sport looking at rugby as the benchmark for solid behaviour and respect, I think we have to set the standard.
Toby is spot on here, but his words reminded me of domething I heard on the Radio 4 "Today" program yesterday (!) - there is a scheme taking cricket into schools to demonstrate the cocepts of respect and decent behaviour...
WRT to the ref thing, well I can only speak regarding the little i know of reffing in England but the general sitiuation is that society refs rarely referee junior matches because there just isn;pt enough of them. The older age groups _may_ et society refs if they are lucky, but at the continuum levels and early youth years the vast majority of refs are club coaches and other club volunteers, who may have varying levels of refereeing education.
Requiring scorecard type reporting and having a system of evaluating refs is is all well and good, but I fail to see how it would work if the vast majoruty of refereees at the younger age groups operate as best effort one man bands.
Could be of course that other NGBs have a different system, but I suspect that at these youinger levels any requirement on people to take more educvation and improvement on board as a volunteer would end up with them walking away. Its not an ideal situation and I am not for one moment suggesting that we just HAVE to put up with it but until there are sufficient volunteer referees that WANT to ref for reffing's sake, be non aligned to any club (ie they'll be reffing all sorts of clubs all over their CB) and have an interest in their own refereeing development, any such measures are doomed to failure.
didds
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Junior Member
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Last Login: 19/05/2009 20:09:04
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| I became a ref earlier this year in order that I could ref the U7 & U8 games at my club where I am also a coach. Having been a marshall at a tournament last year I found that there weren't enough referees, or coaches willing to offer themselves as a referee to make the tournament run smoothly. Although now qualified and a member of my local society, I don't want to move up to a higher age group level. I want to make sure that my club has a good referee willing to ensure that games are played within a good atmosphere and I get some very satisfying feedback as I let the players enjoy the game whilst I also try to explain every decision as I go. I am loud enough in all of my calling so that the players, coaches and parents know what is going on. And so far I have had no issues and many thanks from all involved and I'm sure it's because I have been willing to concentrate on what is required for the players to get the most out of the games rather than the coaches, parents or me. It has been said before that we do need more people to get involved and unfortunately the "old and bold" players of years ago (and I do fall into that category) aren't always the best without a substantial change in their attitude or their way of thinking. However to get back to the topic, if you don't like what the ref is doing have a word at halftime but do it in the right way, and then be honest with yourselves, if he wasn't there would you be willing to do it? Is he a bad referee and no one has told him so? Or is he a good referee who is having a bad day? And are you the "ultimate & perfect" coach?
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 18/11/2008 18:15:52
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| Only yesterday, I was involved in a tournament and my side were subjected to poor refereeing decisions. Basically we had won the game but 3 decisions, all related to tries, cost us AND it was a semi final. In brief, the first try (ours) was awarded but the touch judge informed the ref it was a knock-on som the ref changed his mind. The second try (ours) was scored in acres of space in the corner with no oppositio anywhere near. THe ref deemed that the ball had been grounded before it had crossed the line - IT HADN'T. The final try (theirs) was awarded AFTER my side had clearly touched the ball down and they then jumped on the ball. As a result, we lost 1-0 directly as a result of poor refereeing. What did I do about it when these things happened? NOTHING! I am a referee and I think the guy made an awful mistake (or 3) but I truly believe that there was no intent in his actions. The referees decision HAS to be final and that is that - we cannot question the referees decisions. After the game, I thanked him for refereeing and told him that I disagreed with his judements but would accept them. He asked me to be more specific and I informed him to follow this advice - If he can make a decision, then make it and do not be swayed by anyone - even the touch judge. If a decision is difficult, then ask for clarity - check with touch judges and een coaches. The coaches will probably disagree but then you can sa that if they did not both see the same thing, how can he be expected to call it correctly. In these circumstances explain that you will ALWAYS go with the attacking sidemif there is any doubt. Of course, you canot do this is every decision but key ones like tries are important - the coaches cannot argue if they have at least been consulted. In important games, I have even told the coaches that I will look for theoir input in the type of decisions where TMO would be involved at the top level. I have done this for a while now and SOME coaches now accept that I always make decisions based upon what I see and will NEVER change my mind. A few have spoken positively about this approach. In fact, there have been times when a coach has agreed that a try was not scored by his team when I have been close to awarding it - Very few coaches are bad and most are very supportive 
Peter Hyland
Kings College PE Co-ordinator and Farnham Rugby COach
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 18/11/2008 18:15:52
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| Just had another thought..... would any coach start sniping at a player who made a mistake? I surely hope not, whatever their age/level. On the whole, refs will make far fewer mistakes than any player. It is part of what makes sport so exciting! The fact that the referee's decision is final is what makes rugby great!
Peter Hyland
Kings College PE Co-ordinator and Farnham Rugby COach
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Forum Newbie
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Last Login: 21/10/2008 00:27:27
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| I am coaching under 16s this year. My philosophy in regards to referees stems from my A-grade coach (who is also a top local referee). We encourage the kids to not talk to or question the referees calls on the field, and the only one to talk to the ref is the captain. Preferable the captain will not speak to the ref either. I tell the kids that if they hear a whistle they are to get back the 10 metres then find out which way the penalty has gone, that way they have a defensive line set or they are all on side for the ensuing tap or kick. By not pestering the ref or preempting his decisions you stay on his good side and then (hopefully) the 50/50 decisions will go your way more than not. Thats my 2c worth anyway, keep the ref happy and adjust your play to how he is interpreting things on the day, but NEVER critercise his call. Cheers Steveo
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