The opposing coach was constant sniping and said some unhelpful comments throughout the game. You could see the parents of this coach's side getting worked up with him.

He was asked to be quiet, but took it in the wrong spirit.

How do you deal with this?

I try to explain that it doesn't help the referee or his players by continually shouting at me. By getting in early, so to speak, it can prevent it becoming worse.

If it continues and/or becomes worse maybe you need to stop the game and warn him that if he continues in that manner you could report his behaviour as a ''code of conduct'' to the District Society or Union or even send him off. Coaches can be sent away from the field of play.

This is a last resort but if it's not dealt with the guy in the middle next week may have to put up with worse again from this guy.

If you go to referee meetings raise it with the other referee's and ask how they handle these situatiions. Who know's you may find out other referee's know of the coaches behaviour.

Theres nothing worse than losing a game, not because you were outplayed, but because the opposing coach has influenced or bullied the ref. It has to be up to the ref to show that he won't take it and the sooner he does so the better.

And if the coach takes it the wrong way ... well there are plenty of people like that around. Few people relish confrontation especially in what is after all a leisure activity - but sometimes we have to do things we don't like. We are here so our boys and girls can play, learn and enjoy after all.

I'm very grateful to all refs, they do a tricky job and without them there would be no game, so I'm always slow to criticize them ... even when they are wrong!

Cheers - Ferret

Cheers - Ferret
U16s Backs Coach

"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England" (Sir Winston Churchill)

We refs do make mistakes and, I think, we accept that. I must admit i sometimes find refereeing Sunday morning junior matches harder than a Division 2 league match on a Saturday, due to the lack of discipline of players, parents and coaches and lack of understanding of the laws.

Senior teams, coaches etc are aware of the sanctions available to a referee should coaches/supporters go overboard and their implications on the club. However, that awareness, not all clubs admittedly, is not there on a Sunday morning.

I think a clear head, and letting people know where the line in the sand is at the start is often the best way + a very thick skin.

I only came across it at one other club where we were bullied by their coaches and an unofficial word through higher channels dealt with that, the club were looking for an excuse to discipline him anyway and after that he didn't stay around.

Steve

If you're working with a group of players, regardless of what level, knowing how hard you push them to be their best & the effort & commitment they put into the game & for some of them getting to training, I think there needs to be greater accountability & sanctions on referees for poor officiating.  Because one of the MOST heartbreaking things is doing a job with a team, building up their confidence & passion for the game only for an incompetent official to stuff it all up in an hr!

I know the laws because its crucial for me to be able to guide, teach & coach players to play within those parameters. However, I am a CRAP ref & I accept that- which is why I DONT ref! This topic is something close to my heart & i have had many running battles with poor ref's over the yrs, including being 'sent off', which I refused to do by the way, hence my question above- as long as i wasnt 'on' the field, he couldnt send me 'off'...he threatened to pull the game if I didnt leave & I then pulled my U13 players off. To cut a long story short, he stopped time, he, the opposition coach (who was in agreement with ME!) and myself had a chat & we ended the game amicably..ish! with the ref blowing the correct interpretation

Rugbia floreat ubique

I was asked:

WHAT IS THE MOST APPALLING OF THE TWO IN YOUR OPINION; INCOMPETENT OR BIASED REFEREEING OR A COACH ATTEMTING TO CORRECT A REF WHEN THERE ARE ISSUES OF NOT ONLY FAIR PLAY BUT CHILD SAFETY.

My answer: There is nothing "appalling" about a coach attempting to correct a ref "per se". My "appalling" comment related to a coach "sniping" at the ref publicly from the touchline (see Dan's original post). They way to approach the ref is privately, if necessary with the other coach as well. It is not by a shouting match on the touchline.

A key feature of rugby for me and for a lot of my team and their parents is its discipline. Of course there are good and bad referees and even the good ones make mistakes, because they are unsighted, etc. But there has to be a final decision and in rugby it is the ref's. It is key to the game IMO that the referee's decision is respected.

This doesn't mean he can't be spoken to respectfully. It does mean, in my view, that he should not be shouted or sniped at, by coaches or players. If it gets to that, we are no better than soccer. I would not want to be involved in a game like that. A great many of my players are converts from soccer and cite the atmosphere, spirit and discipline of rugby as a reason for the change.

The other question I was asked was:

HOW LONG DO YOU THINK THE 'GAME' WILL LAST IF COACHES/PLAYERS FALL OUT OF THE SYSTEM BECAUSE OF REFEREEING PROBLEMS.

My answer: There has to be a referee. Without him there is no game. At grass roots level there will always be referees who are lacking. it is an amateur game and they have to start somewhere. Of course they can improve but touchline confrontation is not the way. Personally I think that creates a far greater risk that we end up with too few referees.

These are my opinions, I am flattered that someone took the trouble to ask for them, but it is a pity he or she did not do it here in the thread.

Cheers - Ferret

 

Cheers - Ferret
U16s Backs Coach

"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England" (Sir Winston Churchill)

Forgot to mention this was an U12's game and I was a neutral ref.

Whether we like it or not there will be good ref's and bad ref's, but very few of whom deliberately go out to tuck someone else up. We all make mistakes and unless you are willing to do it yourself then please don't publicly criticise, but please do raise issues in an appropriate manner, as thats how we all learn, is it not... by making mistakes.

Before I finish, only 2 weeks ago out of 25 2nd team games in our district only 15 could go ahead because of referee shortage. Without someone in the middle there is no game....

SADLY, THE BIAS COMES WITH IT. IF WE AS A RUGBY COMMUNITY DO NOT SET OUT THE LAWS TO ALL PLAYERS AND ABIDE BY THEM STRICTLY AND IMPARTIALLY THEN PLAYER DEVELOPMENT SUFFERS AS CLEARLY INDISCIPLINE SETS IN WHEN A TEAM GETS AWAY WITH CONSTANT INFRINGEMENTS. HOW CAN A PLAYER DEVELOP PROPERLY WHEN HE/SHE IS BEING ALLOWED TO INFRINGE IN A MATCH SITUATION.

SOME CLUB REF'S ALLOW INFRINGEMENTS AS THEY REALISE THAT THEIR TEAM (FROM TRAINING SESSIONS) MAY NOT BE DISCIPLINED OR SKILLED IN CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE GAME AND CONSEQUENTLY THE BIAS/SLACKNESS IN LAW INTERPRETATION COMES IN, AND THIS IS OFTEN TO THE DISADVANTAGE OF THE OPPONENTS THAT, MAY THEMSELVES BE DISCIPLINED.

THEN WE HAVE THE ISSUE OF SAFETY AS WELL. IF YOU LET HIGH TACKLES GO UN PENALISED THEN SOONER OR LATER THIS BECOMES 2ND NATURE TO THE PLAYER AND MORE SERIOUS PROBLEMS MAY ENSUE.

PAUL

Thanks for your comments. As you might be aware I have been involved in the Parent Abuse campaign quite a lot in the last few months, with articles in the Ospreys programme, and interviews on national TV and radio. The blog entry of a few weeks ago (http://www.rugby-coaching-blog.com has generated over 4,000 hits and hence I thought it was appropriate to highlight one of the incidents from that weekend and bring it into the forum (at the suggestion of the publishers). For obvious reasons I cannot state which team or coach was involved on the web.

It will ever be thus that mini and midi refereeing will be inconsistent. It is unusual that the referee has done more than a weekend on a referees’ course and they are rarely reviewed. My team is lucky that it has over 50 years of teaching experience behind it and the consequent culture of understanding how to promote good learning in children. It would be rare to be accused of bias let alone incompetency. In fact, I find my parents tend to bemoan the lack of favour towards our own team! It is from this position that we know that we have to bite our lips in the face of poor decisions and last season, some pretty poor behaviour by the referees.

Having consulted widely across the NGBs in the last few months, the overriding conclusion is that the focus remains on the coaches setting high standards first and foremost, even in the face of poor refereeing. We would all agree with that, and want to ensure that good behaviour comes from the key influencers.

In terms of the refereeing standards, then any initiative that helps referees improve must be good. When I used referees for school and district matches, we filled out cards for the referees and of course they filled out cards for us, and passed them to the county.

I shall follow the developments with interest. However it will still be the case that, like it or not, all referees at all levels will make mistakes. It is a mature response that counts, especially when we are dealing with young players.