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Supreme Being
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there were refs at a boys tournament at the weekend. who were not playing these rules.
they just stressed that boys must stay on their feet.(they did give elv talks and advice).
then if this was in England and they were operating under the RFU's Marsh insurance then nobody involved in those games had insurance cover - players, coaches, the referee, administrators of the event, the CB etc.
I guess it was all those people's houses on the line if litigation had ever ensued as a result of a tragic accident, even one unconnected with this bridging area.
didds
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Junior Member
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that is something that i will make sure about in future. the games were in england
i dont think that the two refs that i spoke too were ignoring' as such, but there seemed to be general confusion. they stressed that changes did not make that much difference and that staying on their feet would be their priority. all four teams that i saw were bridging and clearing out in the usual fashion.
am i right in saying that these changes/differences (from normal practice) are not in the elv changes? yet in imo i think these are more fundamental to the game than any elv changes.
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| Hi all, sorry to butt in, I have been following this post but I don't really coach the ruck, that is done by our forwards coach (albeit we don't just coach the forwards of course!) Are we saying in effect that - players cannot charge into the ruck at speed
- players joining or forming a ruck must not lie on the tackled player, or lean on him with one or both hands or arms
...because to my mind that has always been the law, as didds says. We had a training game on Sunday and the ref told the lads they can use one hand to guide the ball towards the back of the ruck, but this seems to be at odds with some of the comments on this post. Any views? Tim
U14s Backs Coach
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Junior Member
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speeding and using your phone when driving is illegal but we see it every day and we all do one or the other of them.
i had mentioned bridging, not laying on! bridging to me is weight on the feet, fists on the floor,head up looking for incoming. not touching the ball or tackled player.
hitting the ruck at speed is poor play imo. it is done to hurt, intimidate or level a better or more important player.
it goes on every week in every game.
my point about all this is ,what will anybody be clearing out, if you cant bridge!
btw
the refs had told us that the boys can lay the ball back if its done straight away and in one movement.
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weathergirls (17/09/2008)
speeding and using your phone when driving is illegal but we see it every day and we all do one or the other of them.
i had mentioned bridging, not laying on! bridging to me is weight on the feet, fists on the floor,head up looking for incoming. not touching the ball or tackled player.
hitting the ruck at speed is poor play imo. it is done to hurt, intimidate or level a better or more important player.
it goes on every week in every game.
my point about all this is ,what will anybody be clearing out, if you cant bridge!
btw
the refs had told us that the boys can lay the ball back if its done straight away and in one movement.
But if as per above you say bridging is weight on feet fists on floor there is no binding therefore not a part of a ruck. If he's looking for incoming and just protecting the ball from advancing defence there isn't a ruck and non of the laws around the ruck apply, this is more akin to the defensive pillar/post scenario not necessarily the first player at the breakdown. I realise it's not as simple as that but bridging is being coached as a mechanism to secure the ball PRIOR to the ruck forming, ie you have to get through a defensive wall before challenging for the ball.
The previous post re feeding the ball back, the law clearly states 16.4 (b) Players must not handle the ball in the ruck. The fundemental problem is that it is not being reffed properly, the recent trend has been it's ok to feed the ball back if deemed to have secured it rather than ruck over the ball until the ball is secure at the rear of the ruck so the SH can retrieve it. My 2p worth.
Steve
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are you telling me that your team does not do exactly as i described?
why choose to quote me but not answer the question of what will there be to clean/clear out.
if you run a team or coach one and you didnt bridge like i described then i would suggest that your team loses every week.
a ref decides when there is a ruck. it is ok to write down your version of events because you decide the time scale in the game in your mind, the reality is that these things are done in a fraction of a second. if it took as long as you seem to be suggesting, then the ball would be picked up and run forward or passed to start a new phase.
my sons team is taught to offload, to pop from the floor, to step over and pick up.
he is 6ft1 and as fast as a whippet but he is one of the tallest and so is forced to play as a 2nd row.
that makes his pack relatively small for under 16 age group. to keep the ball moving at speed suits our club and my sons age group team.
i cant see the point in keep telling me the laws when i can read what you have read.
my point is that if the ref says that black is blue then it it is blue till we can talk in the bar over a beer. a bit extreme i grant you but im sure you understand.
....
i must say i am surprised at the replies for' getting rid of the bridge.
unless we have a wasps/bath (when cipriani broke his leg) or munster/toulouse situation where the the bridge and pick and go are used to waste time then i cant see a problem.
i think rugby has been really good at 'easing' the game forward rather than what is a radical back door tactic imo
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weathergirls (18/09/2008)
are you telling me that your team does not do exactly as i described?
why choose to quote me but not answer the question of what will there be to clean/clear out.
if you run a team or coach one and you didnt bridge like i described then i would suggest that your team loses every week.
a ref decides when there is a ruck. it is ok to write down your version of events because you decide the time scale in the game in your mind, the reality is that these things are done in a fraction of a second. if it took as long as you seem to be suggesting, then the ball would be picked up and run forward or passed to start a new phase.
my sons team is taught to offload, to pop from the floor, to step over and pick up.
he is 6ft1 and as fast as a whippet but he is one of the tallest and so is forced to play as a 2nd row.
that makes his pack relatively small for under 16 age group. to keep the ball moving at speed suits our club and my sons age group team.
i cant see the point in keep telling me the laws when i can read what you have read.
my point is that if the ref says that black is blue then it it is blue till we can talk in the bar over a beer. a bit extreme i grant you but im sure you understand.
....
i must say i am surprised at the replies for' getting rid of the bridge.
unless we have a wasps/bath (when cipriani broke his leg) or munster/toulouse situation where the the bridge and pick and go are used to waste time then i cant see a problem.
i think rugby has been really good at 'easing' the game forward rather than what is a radical back door tactic imo
Sorry to appear to be antagonistic, I actually agree with you it was more an observation that the lawmakers stress what a ruck is/isn't in a very simplistic world of pictures. It never happens or looks like that on a pitch and you're right split seconds dictate what really goes on. My comment about hands in the ruck were to the poster before you.
For reference we got queried at the end of last season by opposition for bridging in U12's and no we're not beaten very often!
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| The way I have had it explained to me is that particularly at the continuum ages in England, head should not be lower than hips - and the player should be in a position where they can support their own weight. So they can in my opinion go in and legally "bridge" in the right body position, over the tackled player and grab their shirt with their hands - but to show that they are legal - pull the shirt up - so this way it is obvious they are not "leaning on". I dont believe that would count as sealing off either - the opposition can always counter ruck the "bridging" player off - something we also work on. But as everyone says that has always been the law - so not anything new really...
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