|
|
|
Supreme Being
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 08/06/2009 12:44:28
Posts: 189,
Visits: 480
|
|
Dear All,
In Rugby League the aim is to get the ball carrier (BC) onto his back to help slow the play-the-ball (PTB), as I am sure you know. There being 4 movements required by the BC to get from his back to having the ball in play (roll onto front, snap knees to chest, sweep leg round, stand PTB). Combined with a good peel (spare man off first, then the tackler on the legs, then the tackler on the upper body) this can really slow the PTB with obvious advantages for the defenders. Tackling technique for all the different tackles, front (blocking, drive & ball-and-all), side and rear tackles is geared towards achieving this end - tackler on top, BC on back.
In RU has anyone given consideration to the issue of where we want the BC to end up beyond just driving them back? What outcomes are the defense looking to achieve beyond stopping the BC? In what position do the defense have the best chance of forcing a turnover, slowing the recycling? BC on back, front, side? Head towards own posts, defenders posts? Where do we want the tackler to end up? How do we want the tackler to finish/peel?
Clearly, the principal object of the tackle is to arrest the forward motion of the BC, but if one also has clear objectives as above one can look carefully at technique in the approach phase, but mainly the tackle and finish phases of the tackle to try to achieve the desired outcomes, making the defense more effective.
Your thoughts would be most welcome.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/06/2008 16:09:53
Posts: 17,
Visits: 28
|
|
| Chris There are some major differences between RL & RU at the tackle area. In RU the Laws of the game state that a tackler must release the tackled player(BC) at the tackle when on the ground. The tackler & BC must also get to their feet before playing the ball. The tackled player must also release the ball when tackled to ground, although they can present the ball, or pass the ball if it is an immediate action. In RL the tackle is a defined end to a phase of play, set number of tackles per teams possession phase. In RU the tackle can be part of a continuous flow of play, which could involve an unlimited amount of tackles & is therefore a more dynamic/fluid situation than in RL. Admittedly there are some aspects of the actual tackle that RL is much better equipped than RU, but the post tackle area is very much different at all aspects between RL & RU.
Ruck, Ruck, & Ruck again.
|
|
|
|
|
Supreme Being
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 08/06/2009 12:44:28
Posts: 189,
Visits: 480
|
|
Hi Tight 5,
I know what you are saying, in neither game is the tackler just allowed to hang on to the BC - holding down penalites are not uncommon in RL.
What I am driving at is, given the rules and situations of RU (and leaving RL out of it - I used the league thing just as an example as they are pretty clear cut about what they are trying to achieve) there will be positions that the BC and tackler end up in that are more advantageous for one side or the other. Even if it is just that one is better placed to regain his feet and play the ball than the other. If one knows and understands those positions one is better placed to manipulate the tackle situation to the best advantage for one's team, either in attack or defense. It seems to me that rather more thought has been given to what the BC does than the tackler. Attention is paid to ball presentation etc. I, personally, have not come across similar attention being paid to what the tackler should do (bar getting his man down). Someone must have developed a theory on it - the game cannot be that naive, it's been professional for a while now.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 12/06/2008 16:09:53
Posts: 17,
Visits: 28
|
|
| Chris You are spot on when you say little attention is payed to the tackler & their position post tackle. I have just completed an assessment to become a coach as part of the new Schools of rugby set-up. The assessment was to provide a 20 minute session for 10 players with the aim of contesting the the ball in the tackle by the tackler. It took me approx 20 hours work to prepare this session, most which was adapted from parts of other drills, & simple biomechanics drills to players back to their feet quickly & with awareness of their surroundings (ball/opposition/support etc). I also included a decision making scenario to make the players thinks about their actions. I was prasied by my assessor on the detailed (in identifying problems & solutions), but simple drills on a very difficult area to coach. There is little or no information on any coaching wwebsite from the RFU, or books, that help in preparing tackling players for the post tackle situation. But as the All Blacks show, it can be a highly effective way of turning the ball over in what are mostly open play situations, thus giving good opportunity for counter attacks. Would be interested in your comments.
Ruck, Ruck, & Ruck again.
|
|
|
|
|
Supreme Being
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 08/06/2009 12:44:28
Posts: 189,
Visits: 480
|
|
Hi Tight 5,
It sounds like you have done some good work there.
For me, the lack of information on and lack of attention paid to the issue is deeply concerning. It reeks of amateurism (and not the good Corinthian kind). Establishing the desired outcomes from a tackle is essential if any sort of coherent tackling technique is to be developed. Tackling is such a fundamental skill. These things just have to be got right and got right with the juniors, right from the word go, when they first start on contact rugby. This is what happens in league, the kids are taught to tackle very well and to get the BC onto his back with them on top.
Looking at this specific issue, I would be interested to learn what your sessions found out. Personally, I am drawn (theoretically) to a league type finish as described above given that the BCs seem to like to either get onto their sides, body in front of ball to present it or on knees and elbows, squeeze ball style. Do what your opponent least wants you to... The tackler needs to prevent a pass off the ground (never sure when that is allowed - when the ref says so seems to be the way as with so much of the confusing and often contradictory rules in the game!). A tackler with eyes open, hitting the area just above the belt line and finshing on top should be well placed to pin the arms and stop the ball being promoted. (Actually, talking of pinning the arms, I saw a great shot of Brent Tate, mid-ball-and-all tackle, ball carrier off the ground, reaching to pull in the arm the BC was putting out to break his fall. A nice, if somewhat brutal touch, to make sure maximum damage was done!)
From there the tackler spins round very fast (league style), holding the BC down (in so far as one can get away with that) regains feet and strips the ball. Feel free to shoot that down, it is entirely untested but we need to start somewhere in working out how to "win the ground" as the leaguies would put it. Doesn't look like anyone else is doing it and this info needs to be in every junior club and school in the land if things are to improve.
Chris
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 30/04/2009 21:13:55
Posts: 13,
Visits: 47
|
|
To my mind there are several situations involved here and therefore several answers to the question.- Aggressive "Low to High" tackle.
I like my tackler to land on top of the BC in the "Missionary" position (Great phrase for adults, but leave it out with the kids), the BC should have his head towards his own posts and be on his back. The tackler should then place his hands on the BC & ball if possible, and use him to get up pushing the BC into the ground preventing him from moving. As soon as the tackler has regained his feet he should get his hands onto the ball to strip it away from the BC. A frequent outcome is a penalty against the BC for failure to release the ball even though he has had precious little time to do so. 2. Passive "Judo Throw" type tackle. I prefer to use this close to set piece, Rucks & Mauls. By "Throwing" the BC over, so that he lands with his back his own side and with the ball exposed to our players giving us the best opportunity to regain possession. 3. The Chase tackle. When everything has gone awry and the BC has broken through the Tackle line, and the tackler is approaching the BC from the rear. Here I like my players to try to get a hand onto the ball or to the BC's wrist during the tackle to strip the ball free or pull one hand free of the ball. By doing this there is a high chance of the ball carrier will spill the ball in the tackle or in contact with the ground either way the referee will view this as a knock on. Therefore if we can't regain possession and gain an advantage at least we will have the scrum feed. I have always believed that the objective of the tackle is not to put the BC on the ground, nor is it to stop / slow the momentum of the attack, but instead it is to regain possession of the ball and mount a counter attack. This is what I try to coach.
If you always do what you've always done You'll always have what you've always had.
|
|
|
|
|
Junior Member
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 10/07/2007 11:38:15
Posts: 12,
Visits: 18
|
|
Making an assumption that the players can make a tackle, my aims when coaching tackling are very simple and I ask the players the following questions which all start with the same line "tell me how you would....1: Stop the forward momentum of the ball carrier 2: Bring the ball carrier to ground if possible 3: Get your body between the opposition and the ball 4:Gain possession of the ball?"
I have found introducing this into coaching tackling makes the players think and problem solve for themselves, the position of the Ball Carrier and the Tackler is totally irrelevant at the point of contact it is which team wins the ball from the situation
Oh and the answer to the questions I ask my Players are 1: Get into the right position to make a tackle 2: use a tackle and or the ball carriers momentum against him 3: Turn the ball carrier towards my team mates 4: get back on my feet before my opponent (usually leaning on him to help themselves up) and take the ball off him
|
|
|
|
|
Supreme Being
Group: Forum Members
Last Login: 08/06/2009 12:44:28
Posts: 189,
Visits: 480
|
|
I guess the point is that from some positions it will be easier for the tackler to manipulate the situation to his/his teams advantage - and hopefully win the ball, than from others. A key point is for the tackler to be able to get to his feet very fast and so be able to play the ball. The tackler likewise. If the BC is on his back he will be slower up than a tackler who is on his front on top of him. In close quarters, getting the man turned may be all one can do.
|
|
| |