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RE: Eyes Open Tackling

philipdc — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 16:54:12 GMT

Yes the idea of the upright bags is good. I use that when the helmets is just too much for them. For juniors I use a heavy boxing bag. You swing at at him like a club. The ideas being that he must keep his feet in the ground all through the tackle.

OK- for the meek - take a medicine ball and throw it at him harder and harder. Make catching the ball the aim of the exersise. Make him run onto the contact with the ball. Very few people can catch with their eyes closed.

Whats all this stuff about U11's and U16s you guys are kidding me right?

Junior Weight training being bad is urban legend. Its another whole thread on its own but start here www.theweakgeteaten.com Then if you need to hear it from the medical experts go here http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Supertraining/

The merits of fighting - The idea of the "classic fighter animal" is outdated. The modern fighter is Lennox Lewis or Victor Klitchko. One ex world kick boxing champ I know, went back to University to do his masters in Psycology when he retired. A local heavy weight cage champion teaches rich kids at a private school how to fight. A third, the SA mutai boxing champ is my personal trainer in weight lifting. They share one thing common, humility and a gentleness with other people.

Before I would let my son play rugby he did 3 years of cage fighting (Starting at age 4). It gave him a significant advantage. He now is is the leading try scorer and tackler in his school. They teach kids martial arts from age 5 in gyms all over the world. It should be a prerequisite for Rugby.

England is my second favorite team, but after every Twickenham game that I watch, where you have these noble warriors limping off the field bleeding and keeping stiff upper lips (notice its always the guys in white doing the bleeding), I want jump off the couch and scream, "The aim of Rugby is not to go out and get hurt playing for your team, but to let the other guy get hurt playing for his".

Examples of people that close their eyes in contact, Martin Cory, Phil Vickery, Johnny Wilkinson - you can see it in their contact posture! If you can't see this problem by looking at the video or watching your players posture follow him to the gym, He will be the same guy who closes he eyes when pushing upwards on a heavy bench press.

In my 10 years of Gridiron coaching I coached over 1000 players. Less than 10 played though all 10 years. That 1 % shared one thing in common they all trained weights and they were all schooled in martial arts.

Fighting teaches you to keep your eyes open in contact. Keeping your eyes open is critical to to good technique.

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

cjp — Fri, 17 Aug 2007 15:59:29 GMT

I can see problems with that for the u11s Phillip...!

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

philipdc — Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:44:55 GMT

Sorry its taken me so long to get back to you, but I want offer a solution here that does not use the helmets as I mentioned on www.ironrugby.com (Helmets is still my recommended way).

Rico Hattingh is a friend of mine in Cape Town, South Africa. He is the Heavyweight Mixed Martial Arts Cage fighting champion of SA and has had numerous fights in the US and UK, so take him seriously. He got this technique from Mike Bernado - also Cape Town, ex world champion kick boxer.

This is how you get a fighter to keep his eyes open in contact:

Back the fighter up against a wall, back foot on the wall and head about 6 inches from the wall. There is no way he can step backward or move his head backward without hitting it on the wall.

The fighter holds his guard up and looks at the coach - in the eyes - through the guard. Fighter can only protect and not hit back at the coach! Now start out slow slapping him left right and straight, with a few body shots. He must maintain eye contact with you. As he starts to get it you let him have it with a really hard one. It is only in the hard one that he gets to used to looking into the pressure and staying alert.

Its also a great exercise in "not giving way". It is crucial to get rugby players to respect the gain line. Revisit the exersize periodically.

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

Taffy — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:22:38 GMT

Thats ok for juniors over the legal age for wieght training but for players under the age of 16.

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

Gareth — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 07:28:38 GMT

My 2 cents...

Using visual aids, such as color coded equipment can also be used.

So try to employ a situation where he is performing a tackle (bag or player) and getting the coach to signal something at that moment.

Example: The player runs in, executes his tackle, and as the player makes contact the coach raises a hand. One the player is back on his feet he has to call which hand was raised by the coach.

To make it harder to guess, use color coded cards and he has to call the color. If his eyes are closed, he wont be getting it right.

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

cjp — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 10:19:38 GMT

Hi Philip,

Good to hear from you. I would love to have a set of helmets and pads if budgets allowed. Sadly the average club is not all that well off. The pads are not so bad but the helmets are really dear. If you know of any second hand kit suppliers (pref. in the UK) let me know! I would also like one of those frame things with the bag on a rail so it slides across - not sure what they are called. My wish list is bigger than my budget!

In the absence of that bag-on-a-rail thing I read recently of the following drill (from Steve Johnson):

3 players, 1 heavy bag. Players line up 5m apart (could be more) bag in the middle. Player 1 advances towards the bag, breaks down into the "hitting position" and delivers a firm, upwards hit picking up the bag. Player 1 carries the bag, using short choppy steps towards player 2 and throws it at him in the vertical position.

Player 2, already in the hitting position, delivers a strong upwards hit to the bag and, grasping it firmly carries it and throws it at player 3 who awaits in the hitting position.

The bag should stay in the vertical position throughout the drill. Continue for as long as the players show good form, not longer. As players become more practiced at the drill more motion can be introduced with receiving players advancing towards the carrier, breaking down into the hitting position, feet pummelling the ground to receive/hit the bag.

With such a drill we can work on:

- Eyes open tackling (hard to catch the thing eyes closed or then carry it blind!)
- Breaking down into the hitting position
- The "hitting position" (see ironrugby for a very good illustration and explanation of this)
- Power step (this is effectively a front on "drive tackle" so a same shoulder power step would be approriate)
- The upwards motion and leg drive required to tackle properly
- The head position (sliding to the side as normal - and incidentally as recommended by Coach Tom Bass for front on tackles - Gridiron and RU/RL differ on head position for side on tackles), contact point on shoulder ("head tight to the contact") and arm wrap (gridirion style slamming inside of elbows in first - or otherwise as preferred)
- Controlling the contact/tackle

All in a more dynamic situation than that afforded by a static bag on the ground. Clearly, each aspect will need to have been worked on separately in a more static situation before one can move to a drill like this bringing them all together. But I am looking forward to trying this!

Have a look at this link - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz0_An6RH5k&NR=1 - not only is it a bit of fun, but it is useful to observe how the players making the really big hits do use their legs effectively and time their hits well. Note the head positions and also the phenominal ball retention in contact. When Ruben Wiki (Raiders - green shirts) hits Adrain Lam, this is only moments after Lam received the ball. Ditto Humono's hit on that unfortunate Bulldog! That Rabbitohs prop (no 11) sure makes an impact! I know some of these savage RL hits look a bit high for delicate RU sensibilities however no lasting damage was done. Chest high hits are the norm in both NRL and Superleague and does not lead to serious injury.

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

philipdc — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:23:20 GMT

You passed over the "helmets" idea too quickly. I cover this topics extensively in [url=http://www.box.co.za/wiki/index.php/Helmets_and_Pads]www.ironrugby.com[/url]

I know of no other way than this to practice the keeping of the eyes open. Basically you just keep bashing the kid in the face until he learns that closing your eyes simply does not solve it.

Every team should have a few sets of helmets and pads for defense training. How else do you train at impact intensity?

Here is a tip on the eye thing. You can ussually pick it up in the gym. If the kid is closing his eyes on his bench press, changes are he is clsoing them in the tackle. Get him to stare into the pain on Bench press and you are the first step in the right direction.

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

cjp — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 18:34:40 GMT

What an excellent idea Tight 5 - not only does it encourage the players to keep their eyes open but also reinforces good tackling technique - the idea of which being for the tackler's feet to stay on the ground while the ball carrier's feet leave the ground.

As you say it could be progressed in many ways - I will need to think of ways of encouraging the player to keep eyes open pre-and post contact. Fend parrying drills would be one way pre-contact. Ball stripping could be another.

Chris

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

Tight 5 — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 14:01:32 GMT

I have been considering this subject for a while as it is important for all players in many aspects of the game.

What you have to remember is that shutting the eyes is an autonomic reaction ( subconscious decision) by the body to a contact situation for prevention of injury to the eyes., similar to the body tensing before contact.

This means you have to teach players to keep their eyes open in contact situations, &, as with anything you teach/learn, some players will be better at it than others.

With any teaching process you start small & build as competence/skill grows.

One I have tried is to get players to tackle a tackle bag, but stay on their feet & then get them to put the bag on a cone 1m behind the bag. This means they have a contact situation, but have to look for the cone to place the bag on, so trying to encourage them to keep their eyes open.

You can also have 3 or 4 cones of different colours & call which colour you want the bag on (this makes players think more). If started slowly you can see how players improve. It also a good one for players to watch their peers to stop cheating & have a bit of fun whilst learning a new skill.

This can then be progressed in any number of ways.

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

Toby — Thu, 14 Jun 2007 10:53:17 GMT

Helmets may work, but I think you'd probably be back to square one once the helmets came off. I think patience and practise are the only effective ways to coach this, with constant reminders to your players.

RE: Eyes Open Tackling

Gilly — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:06:13 GMT

A difficult one and I don't have an answer but, hitting the kids round the head, helmet or not, may not be in line with the club's Child Protection Policy!

Eyes Open Tackling

cjp — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:22:18 GMT

As I am sure you all know, the ability of a player to keep his (or her) eyes open while tackling is very important. Indeed coaches in gridiron and RL stress its importance. How else can the tackler see to parry the fend, react to attempted offloads, pin the arms of the ball carrier etc.

Does anyone have any techniques that they use for teaching this skill? All I have come across so far is from gridiron where they put helmets on and the coach whacks players on the helmet to see if they blink! Players can also play a version of stare-out whilst clashing helmets etc. Close observation by the coach of players hitting bags and tackling sleds is also used. (This is a bit easier for them as the sleds don't collapse like a bag and they often have their bags suspended in overhead frames on runners etc)

Keeping eyes open in contact would clearly be useful for attackers too.

Chris