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RE: Referee Abuse

Tourist Pete — Thu, 26 Apr 2012 13:46:54 GMT

When introducing the parental Code of Conduct (along with the player and coach one) it would be worth getting all of the players, parents and coaches together to explain what is expected and why.

Apart from all of the stuff that has already been written here, clubs can be fined, banned and relegated for the behaviour of their spectators. This can be crippling to small clubs. Also, if you get a reputation for poor spectator behaviour you will run out of invites.

Promote CoC and fair play for the right reasons, but make sure your players and spectators undersand the alternatives.

RE: Referee Abuse

Tacticalwithdrawal — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 13:15:58 GMT

[quote][b]EKW (11/04/2012)[/b][hr]Pale Nonu flagged this up...

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Rugby-boy-knocks-ref-out-20120409

...I wanted to say something smart but for for quite a few hours, all I could say was "Wow!!"

What would [b]you[/b] do?[/quote]

'Wow' is the right word.....

If I'd been the ref I wouldn't have gone to the player at the end of the game, I'd have gone to the coach of the team to get the number. Other than that don't see what else he could have done.

One bad thing though, how come the player was only banned for a year!?! You go knocking out refs, particularly after the game when you should have had time to calm down, you should get banned for a lot longer than a year.

RE: Referee Abuse

EKW — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:35:19 GMT

Pale Nonu flagged this up...

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Rugby-boy-knocks-ref-out-20120409

...I wanted to say something smart but for for quite a few hours, all I could say was "Wow!!"

What would [b]you[/b] do?

RE: Referee Abuse

LnC — Mon, 19 Mar 2012 16:26:58 GMT

I can only echo Nick. I am a society ref and currently coaching u11s and I have noticed lots of this behaviour creeping in, I know that some thought it unlikely . Well done to the club for a strong message (I do not think it too harsh - even for a 'first offence'). It doesnt matter whether you are a Society Ref or not.

Handling these matters is never easy but it sounds like you did exactly the right thing and in the right way too. It is a hard game and without the special respect for the the Laws and officials it just wouldnt survive!

RE: Referee Abuse

GE — Tue, 21 Feb 2012 02:41:19 GMT

Nick, well said. You make a really good point about making a distinction between the response of the various parties:

Club/commitee, should deliver a penalty and demand adherence with the code of conduct without compromise.
Coach/referee, should be as friendly, forgiving and understanding as possible within reason (for the sake of the young player and future relations).

It has been my experience that when coaches take on the role of enforcer, it can end up with some very bad long-term issues. (see thread below entitled "Forwards rule".). We have a right to be treated correctly, but we also need to ensure it does not get personal. We need to let the officials do the enforcing. That is their job.

RE: Referee Abuse

nickwhite55 — Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:34:05 GMT

I speak from a background of having played at level 5 with an occasional foray into level 2. coached from under 12's to adults at level 7 and been a society referee to level 6. The father's actions have no place in rugby. There are no mitigating circumstances. If it had been a society referee that he abused, the expected ban would have been in the region of that given by your club. You not being a Society Referee does not mean you deserve less respect.

A well as handing out the ban the club's disciplinary committee should interview him and explain that as a spectator of his son's games he represents the club and has a responsibility to behave in a manner that does not put the club into disrepute. If he is not aware that in rugby we do not behave like that, then he needs it explaining to him in no uncertain terms. For your part, in order to 'bury the hatchet' you could, as advised by others on here, accept the half apology. The Club should not, your disciplinary committee should accept nothing less than a full apology from a person who fully recognises his behaviour was unacceptable. This does not need to be done in a manner that attempts to humiliate the father but he does need to understand.

One of the downsides of the volume of junior rugby being played in our clubs is that we are attracting coaches and spectators who do not have a background in the game. We need these 'converts' to the game and should welcome them. Those of us who are familiar with the code of conduct inherent in our game should do all we can to educate them. Mostly by our our good example.

RE: Referee Abuse

Blub — Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:24:50 GMT

This is not abuse, but certainly it was a bit of an eye-opener to me, after a lifetime of playing rugby, and 4 years of coaching kids.

I was at a tournament with my A team, when I was asked to referee a couple of games in the B teams ection. I had always tried to avoid this in the past but for a number of reasons, I couldn't get out of it this time.

So I reffed both games, neither involving my club I should add, and I think I did OK. It was U11's. I made no glaring errors and made sure all decisions were fully understood by the players. Both games were a little one-sided, each with an obvious better team.

What shocked me was at the end, not a single player, or coach came up to me to shake my hand - not one, from 4 different teams. I was amazed. It is a steadfast rule of mine, and indeed all the coaches in our club, that players, coaches, and refs all shake hands after the game, and I have never noticed it not happening - primarily because it is not something I look for. I was really quite upset by it - not because it was me, but because it sets a terrible example for these young rugby players.

I probably was not the best ref these people had ever experienced but certainly I have seen far, far worse. No-one got injured, no decision affected the nature of the game. Amazing. And sad. What sort of people are teaching these children about Rugby at some clubs I wonder???

RE: Referee Abuse

didds — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 20:10:39 GMT

On the other hand it puts a line in the sand for all other parents going forward (not that other parents necessarily need it of course).

Well done the club. Why should volunteers (well anyone of course, but you know what I mean :-) be subject to abuse?

didds

RE: Referee Abuse

EKW — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:39:43 GMT

Ten weeks is a little harsh for a first offence and I wonder if it is fair in the absence of a CofP. The father's behaviour was unacceptable but it was in ignorance.

However, perhaps the mother could persuade the father to apologise; otherwise, it would be hard to disagree with the Club's decision. We spend most of our time trying to get support that it would be churlish to complain when we get it! :ermm:

RE: Referee Abuse

Nick G — Thu, 16 Feb 2012 16:25:57 GMT

GE, an excellent post. With a few days' hindsight, I can see that my own reaction to the incident could have been more measured and less self-righteous.

There was, in fact, a swifter response from the club than I'd expected - a 10 week ban for the parent.

To help everybody move on from what was a very ugly incident for the club, and not least the player and his mother, I would support a reduction in the penalty if there is some genuine recognition that he might have overstepped the mark.

RE: Referee Abuse

GE — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 20:43:26 GMT

http://www.juniors.rugbynet.com.au/verve/_resources/1.4_NSWJRU_Code_of_Conduct_FINAL.pdf

Knowing and communicating correct behaviour is one thing. But ensuring that transgressions are dealt with correctly is not straight forward. Whilst the coaches/referees in this forum will defend your position (and rightly so), remember rugby is about the boys, and what is best for them. Your role is about demonstrating and teaching sportsmanship. And it is not all about winning.

I believe it is very important that you find a way to seek peace with the parent. If he has never been involved in rugby or team sport, he probably didn't know (at the time) that he was doing anything wrong, and may now feel somewhat humiliated by the incident. It sounds like he is aware now of his error, and is trying to make amends. Accept his apology - show the father, and importantly the boy also, how mature individuals behave.

RE: Referee Abuse

spike — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:47:35 GMT

If you need a draft or example of such a code of conduct our club's policies can be downloaded from http://www.pitchero.com/clubs/swaffham/d/documents.html

Agree with EKW totally on this.

RE: Referee Abuse

Nick G — Sun, 12 Feb 2012 06:47:59 GMT

Thank you EKW, great reply.

Bit of an update: training this morning. Both lad and Dad turned up. The father gave what at best was a half hearted apology, suggesting that had he not been forcibly restrained then he was seeking simply to talk through the circumstances with me. I made it clear that I thought he was misrepresenting what had happened and that it was a disgraceful incident in front of children.

I also spoke to the player whose attitude couldn't have been more different than his fathers. I went through the incident with him and explained in detail why I had given him the YC, and the princliples behind it. He got it completely and said simply 'I feel really bad that my Dad lost it'.

I also saw the club President, who as it happened had seen the incident, and although the Club doesn't have a policy on the issue (which should now be drafted, I agree), he was talking about a potential 'suspension' for the parent concerned, which I think is the right approach.

RE: Referee Abuse

EKW — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:10:44 GMT

A very sad state of affairs :crying:

Does the club have a parental code of conduct? If not, I suggest you get one drawn up as soon as possible.

Generally these codes stipulate what is expected and any breach results in penalties; anything this serious would result in a ban, particularly with refusal to apologise.

You obviously cannot punish the player for his father's behaviour so I would still include him in the squad but make it clear that the father is subject to a ban. The player can attend with another 'responsible' adult... if the squad needs to travel he can arrange to go with a team mate if no other family are available.

If the family refuse to return I am afraid, so be it! One player is not more important than the team, the squad, the club, the culture etc. I suppose you should consider yourself fortunate that this was you refereeing and the outburst was not directed at an official in front of another club!

Of course, if the father apologises and gives his word that this will not happen again, you could give him the benefit of the doubt.

I am afraid this is a sign of the times... but it does not mean we should allow it!!!

Referee Abuse

Nick G — Sat, 11 Feb 2012 18:17:28 GMT

Not a good day at the office today, gents.

Bit of background: I'm a coach of an U13's team that has entered an U14's competition, to get some competitive games which are few and far between in the part of the world we live in. Today's fixture was against the U14's of our own club. As a result, it wasn't thought necessary to have a local society referee, and when the music stopped I ended up being the man holding the whistle.

To cut a long story short I ended up having to yellow card one of the U13 players (my own team) for dissent. I'm very comfortable with the decision, having warned the players before the game and immediately prior to the specific incident about my expectations.

Then at half time the father of the player concerned stormed onto the field haranguing me for the upset caused to his child and had to be physically restrained by other parents. I did my best to calmly offer to explain the decision, but got a mouthful of abuse that I've never even witnessed in a rugby environment in over 30 years in and around the game. It was a slightly surreal experience and my main concern at the time was that there were load of children watching a very unpleasant incident, including my own son.

The parent was pulled away and ended up leaving with his son and we got on with the second half.

The club that I'm involved with has no experience of dealing with anything like this, and I've already had feedback that the parent concerned (who does not have a rugby or even a team sport background) still feels justified in his actions and has no intention of apologising. A bit of extra context is that the carded player is easily the best player in the team and probably in his age group in the region, and next week is one of the most import competitions of the season.

My issue is that I feel that there has to be some consequences from this. I would be delighted if the parent concerned offered an apology and then we could move on, but this seems highly unlikely. It would seem very unfair to do something which impacted on the player, who was not responsible for his father's actions. The nature of the club is that is is quite new and really good at the onfield and positive stuff, but will want to stick its head in the sand on stuff like this unless prompted. I certainly don't want to be petty or vindictive, but don't think it's right to let it go.

Has anybody had any experience of handling abuse by parents and how it can be managed appropriately, so that the right message is sent to players and parent, yet the child is not disproportionately impacted?

I wouldn't mind but I didn't even get the $45 that a Society referee would have been paid!