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RE: Snake System

Nieghorn — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:09:12 GMT

I think the Aussies might call it a 'latch' or a 'hammer' - I forget which.

Two bodies in line driving at a narrow point should concentrate more force than two abreast. I say it's worth practising, but as with my warnings over the old 'around the waist bind-and-ruck' technique, I'd rather see players 'ruck first with intensity' and worry about binding on to each other in textbook form if there's time / need.

I leave that up to the second player to arrive, to focus on driving the first over by either putting a shoulder on his butt as if he were in a scrum, or at least latching (hence the term) onto his body and keeping the force as narrowly focused as possible, rather than standing astride, or worse, going solo with no coordination.

Took this picture from when I was in Oz which I think demonstrates a hasty one quite well:

[img]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f224/Nieghorn/IMG_0784.jpg[/img]

RE: Snake System

rugbycoach.co.nz — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 20:56:22 GMT

Kev

Check out the link from Better Rugby Coaching to the Western Australian RU (The Force) Drill of the Week. They call it the Latch as we do here in NZ. Just try and get the Snake or Latch to get his body position down with his shoulder on the Ball Carriers rump (similar to flankers binding on the scrum). This is also a good drill for defenders as well. It is all about getting as much body weight as possible into contact. The latch can either drive the BC through and give a good platform to set up a maul by assisting him to stay on his feet or clean out the immediate threat and take up the space beyond the ball should the BC go to ground.

[url=http://www.betterrugbycoaching.com/Article-722-91-Player-Skills--Drills-Tackle-Situation-The-Latch-and-Drive-Training-Drill][/url]

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RE: Snake System

kev — Fri, 01 Jan 2010 12:50:01 GMT

hi guys i'm new to the huddle, this snake system sounds interresting and would also like to see a training vidio clip of it if any one has one

kev.

RE: Snake System

Jeppo — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 13:11:46 GMT

The IRB working party who are studying the maul and it's various components and techniques will probably make the 'snake' obselete. IRB Coach Educators have been circulated with the proposals, so now time will tell.

RE: Snake System

denrgj1 — Tue, 29 Dec 2009 01:10:26 GMT

I was fortunate enough to be invited to a session last month given by the sharks academy manager, Swys De Bruin, which was all about the 'snake; system (though he never called it that).

He demonstrated everything from the technical to tactical side of players getting in a position to enter the narrower 'gate'.

First thing that he concentrated on was the ball carriers ability to make a long place. This wasn't about the player jack-knifing whilst on the floor, but more about the ball carrier fighting during the contact to place long. The next stage was the first support entering and calling 'HEAD'. There was a little confusion here as what appeared to be said and practised was the 'head' player actually holding the tackler in on the play.

The 'body' player then provides depth rather than width to the ruck, binding on the 'head' player with his shoulder at the back of the thigh. The 'tail' player then scans and makes the decision to pick and go or add more depth to the ruck.

One big benefit I saw was that if performed quick and well, opposition can be teased into coming from the side. Another benefit was that the offside line is effectively put further away from the SH, giving more protection, and gives the backs a couple more metres in attack.

The next part of the session was the support lines players take once the ball has been transferred and how they support.

One thing I will say on this is that the support patterns of play appear to have been taken from Pierre Villepreux. He was talking about the 'early' and 'late' support players in the mid 90s, and here we are nearly 15 yrs later seeing the professional academies and international sides trying to implement. Just shows how visionary the man was/is!!!

RE: Snake System

rugbycoach.co.nz — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 22:39:56 GMT

Try getting players performing the monkey crawl - this is a crawl now being perfected where players are on all 4's and very low to the ground. They are legally still on their feet. [b]This will generally apply to the tackler [u][/u][/b]who instead of going for the ball tries to dominate the opposition space by crawling forward and leaving the ball for the second player -The Snake

In this comment I was referring to the [b]tackler only[u][/u][/b]. However get all of your players perfecting it and understanding where and when to use it. Also aids low body position. A good exercise is pushing car tires check the link [url=http://www.rfu.com/TakingPart/Coach/CoachResourceArchive/~/media/Files/2009/Coaching/Articles/Rugbyreadyinfo/Tyres%20Poster.ashx][/url]

You have read the laws regarding [b]OTHER PLAYERS 15.6[u][/u][/b]

Laws pertaining to the tackler

[b]15.4 THE TACKLER[/b]

(a) When a player tackles an opponent and they both go to ground, the tackler must immediately release the tackled player.

(b) The tackler must immediately get up [b]or move away from the tackled player and from the ball at once.[u][/u][/b] - it does not state whether he has to be on his feet, in fact most players just roll away. In this response I am suggesting another form of movement away from the tackled player and ball - The Monkey Crawl

(c) The tackler must get up before playing the ball and then may play the ball from any direction

[b]Points to note:[/b]

The tackler is moving away from the tackled player and the ball immediately

He has no intention of playing the ball - just taking up the space and 'eating up the meter past the ball' if you listen closely to commentary you will hear players yell out "meter" or some other 'cue'. This communicates that the team whether defence or attack has taken that space and is therefore past the ball.

Remember, this has to and will happen immediately. Referees are now looking for positive intent from both sides in the contact.

Hope this clarifies your reply and you and your team can gain some benefit.

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RE: Snake System

didds — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:26:00 GMT

[quote]
Try getting players performing the monkey crawl - this is a crawl now being perfected where players are on all 4's and very low to the ground. They are legally still on their feet. This will generally apply to the tackler who instead of going for the ball tries to dominate the opposition space by crawling forward and leaving the ball for the second player -The Snake
[/quote]

Hmmm... I'm not convinced (but can be swayed with a source :-)

Law 15.6
(a)After a tackle, all other players must be on their feet when they play the ball. Players are on their feet if no other part of their body is supported by the ground or players on the ground.

...

(h) After a tackle, any player lying on the ground must not prevent an opponent from getting possession of the ball.

this seems to imply that on all fours = on the ground. And if on the ground a player cannot prevent access to the ball.

maybe I've misunderstood the crawler's role in this????

didds

N

RE: Snake System

rugbycoach.co.nz — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:08:14 GMT

[size=7][font=Arial]The snake (or sometimes referred to as the latch) is the trailing player following the ball carrier (BC) into contact. The BC needs to decide once in contact what presentation is appropriate
1. Lateral (across field - parallel to goaline)
2. Jacknife (across field - parallel to goaline - swivel at hips and reach back toward your own goaline)
3. Long (Linear) (down field - parallel to touchline)
4. Squeeze Ball (on knees with forearms and chest on ground - linear)
Coach decision making in contact and the benefits of each - ask the players what they think, they will surprise you.

Essentially what we are talking about is the contact area and the role that the 1st support player plays. This changes frequently and without warning. As coaches work out different strategies to combat opposition tactics. The recent French tour to NZ (2009) showed up the deficiencies in the All Black clean out protocols - basically the AB's weren't brutal enough and did not get enough body weight over the ball quickly enough. In the first test loss the French got 2 men into the contact on defence quicker - hence the large amount of turnover ball they won. This is the snakes role both in attack and defence - positioning himself ideally on the buttock of the BC scrum position)

Below is a summary of the contact area now coached in NZ following that game and the change in mindset
Firstly we needed to eliminate the word 'breakdown' from the rugby language - this gave the impression of a car broken down on the side of the road with it's bonnet up - not moving - not ideal when you are trying to get over the ball.

Recent analysis in NZ rugby of this area showed
1. 57% of contact area turnovers occurred through 'T' bone tackles - contact on the defensive players sternum
2. 24% of contact area turnovers occurred when the NC ran laterally
3. 72% of all tackle breaks involve some form of stepping
In teaching the contact area - coach agility and footwork - build this to include a snake - trailing player - try to avoid contact.
[b]Get players to identify what sort of ball they are receiving [/b]
1. Fast Ball (Immediate)
2. Slow Ball (attack having to check it’s momentum)
3. Dead Ball (players parked up over the ball)
[b]Coaching points -[/b]
Evasion and speed ‐“create aggressive mindset” - turn on the turbos
1v1 and 1v2 skills ‐fending
Stay square through contact –Hard parts on show
Leg Drive
Presentation (Long Ball, Same Way, Squeeze, Narrow gate)
[b]The 1st support player - Snake has
3 Decisions to make[/b]
1. Clean Out
2. Protect the Ball
3. Maintain Continuity
Three (3) Players should dominate the contact area
You need players who are prepared to go into dark places
[b]Clean Out[/b]
Tackle the Tackler ‐1st option
Clean Out square with Shoulders
Clean Out - In to Out ‐create hole
Gator Roll
[b]Protect the ball[/b]
Get past the Ball ‐eat up the metre beyond the ball
Low strong body position
Take on the fight ‐take on the fight –do not park up
The 4th player needs to make a decision on maintaining continuity and not wait for the halfback to arrive
[b]These may include;[/b]
Clearing Pass ‐all players capable
Pick and Go ‐step sideways and go forward ‐duck
Latch - BC and trailing player into contact with 1st ruck defender
Attack the 2nd defender (Turn In)
Set up Maul

To take it back to the original thread - there is no right or wrong way. Don't get caught with preconceived ideas. Get your players to learn and make decisions on what is best in the situation. Get them strong so they are not limited (as the BC) in contact to performing one particular presentation style - they need to learn to fight. The supporting players need to drive over the ball and eat up the metre beyond the ball - do not park up on the tackled player = 'breakdown' - not going anywhere - and take up space on the opposition side of the ruck.
Try getting players performing the monkey crawl - this is a crawl now being perfected where players are on all 4's and very low to the ground. They are legally still on their feet. This will generally apply to the tackler who instead of going for the ball tries to dominate the opposition space by crawling forward and leaving the ball for the second player -The Snake

Dominate the clean-out with 3 & 3 = 3 players and 3 second ball

Hope this helps
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rugbycoach.co.nz
[size=7][/size][/font][/size]

RE: Snake System

steve johnson — Mon, 28 Dec 2009 14:38:11 GMT

I have coached a snake maul for a long time; in some cases we have had all 8 forwards 'snaking' forward - occasionally 30 metres to score a try. The flexibility offered by all players being on their feet makes it feasible, but in the 'snake ruck,' I think it would be very easy for the defender to de-stabilise the initial support player. I wonder how many first arriving forwards would be strong to resist such defence. It seems to me that the defending forwards would be able to blast away the front player. The advantage is to create a wider gap between the scrum half and defence, but I wonder if the risks to the player on the ground (safety) and the weaker 'tower' structure of the ruck make it worthwhile.

RE: Snake System

gustavolopez — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:06:01 GMT

Since i posted the original message I like to make clear one point:

The secret of the snake system is no so much on the way the ball carrier presents (he can use te long presentation or what the south africans call scoring a double try) but as the way the arriving players join and form the ruck. They are the ones forming the snake since they join one behind the other. The snake is compossed of 3 players :Head, Body and Tail.

RE: Snake System

Ready Rugby — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 04:48:22 GMT

It is actually a really effective technique for quick ball recycling, the key though is making sure the cleaners get passed the ball.

It can be easily counter rucked, however. If you look at the scanners standing over or past the ball, he is generally alone and the best way to counter ruck is to pull the scanner slightly forward (getting them off balance) before driving him back on a slight angle. This generally causes the player to roll back onto the ball, 1/2 or any players in the vicinity. If the roll back is well timed the defence can poor through over the ball leaving the attacking team with little chance to regain structure.

Something to think about.

RE: Snake System

Miler — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 15:30:21 GMT

This is being coached by the premiership clubs on thier training days , I believe they call it " jacknife"

we recently introduced this as I was at my wits end try to coach the u14s to ruck low enough and beyond the ball carrier , thus leaving the ball stuck amongst the bodies and the scrum half scratching like a chicken to free the ball .

so we have now 2 calls ...socks , means get the ball / your body to the floor , and ...jack , this is called just after they hit the floor to signal moving the ball away as described ... its been working very well , scrum half is no longer scrating and the ball is appearing more quickly and much cleaner

RE: Snake System

hadon.westerby — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:00:32 GMT

The advantages of this system are as previously mentioned.
The gate is narrowed. Might draw a few extra penalties. Might work against you of course!
The ball is placed probably 2-3 memetresway from where the offside line is, allowing cleaner, unchallenged ball.
Defending teams may choose to not compete.

Problems can be;
How to get into this position, as you often end up losing a small amount of ground to achieve it.
Players exposed. we've had no injuries from this method to date. Referee's very quick to protect guys on the ground.

I use it with my teams. Certainly the ball is placed much further back, allowing for quicker ball to be recycled.
Even if players cannot get into a true 'snake' or 'gadget ball' position (as it is also known), the player has a responsibility to hinge at their hips and reach and place as far back as they are able to.

It's another option.

RE: Snake System

mettadown — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:21:17 GMT

Yeah this makes the gate narrow for your team aswell so your players can be pinged for coming in from the side. This technique can also be called 'laying the egg' because the player sometimes squeeze the ball out through his legs.

Injury can be a big problem for the ball carrier, because as an opponent enters a ruck, the ball carriers head is the first thing they see, and it is very easy to cop a stray knee.

RE: Snake System

Caveman — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:46:27 GMT

Was doing a Foundation (Youth) coaching course at the weekend & the tutor was demonstrating this to us, precisely for the reasons mentioned in earlier posts

RE: Snake System

stuart3826 — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:34:17 GMT

Ref's view

I coach players to try this if possible precisely because it does narrow the defending gate. If no-one jackals, and a ruck forms, be careful that players stay on their feet, or they will end up bridging and getting pinged for it!

RE: Snake System

KenD — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:25:02 GMT

The youth development coach at my sons club was demonstrating this last night at training. He encouraged the tackled ball carrier to work on the floor to get his body in a position that is more or less parallel to the touchlines, rather than the 'traditional' across the pitch 'S' shape that us 'gray haired' coaches teach! The idea is to narrow the gate and get the ball much nearer your supporting players. Reckons you can win the ruck with fewer players and produces cleaner ball for the SH.

Interested in others views on this. I can see the concept, but wonder whether it makes the player on the floor vulnerable (I think he would end up pretty much face down stretched out - lower back exposed to boots etc?). Also the gate is narrowed for both teams - so your own support players will have trouble defending the ball?

RE: Snake System

didds — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 20:40:33 GMT

I'm not quite sure how this works in practise (even as a training drill)... anyone got a clip of it?

didds

Snake System

gustavolopez — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:18:56 GMT

Hello,

I recently started teaching a rucking technique I came across that is called the Snake System. This concept was originally developed by Robbie Deans and is now taught at the Sharks Academy amongst others.

The basic concept is rucking one behind the other instead of the traditional ruck, that way you force a long and narrow gate which is supposed to be more dificult for the defenders and gives the scrum half comfort to deliver the ball. The question is, has anybody tried this in real game situations?

I have been looking at a lot of videos from the Natal Sharks, the Crusaders and recently Australia to try and see if they actually use it. Although it looks like sometimes they try to do it, it never actually seems to be done the way I saw it in the training sessions.

Best Regards,