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RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Nipper — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 15:50:20 GMT

Thanks, R&B -- duly noted.

Where we started using it last season is off a slow/static ball situation, where we have a pod of runners set up, and a few set moves to try and break down the ruck defense, and get some go-forward and quick ball.

Use the 9 to move somewhat laterally and target certain defenders, draw them out of position a bit, and get our pod runners to run off the 9 and into the gaps/half-gaps that (hopefully) are created.

Takes a bit of work to get the timing right, but the moves need not be complicated -- just need to get enough movement of the defenders to create that half-gap or even just off balance or expose their weak shoulder.

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Red & Black fan — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 09:17:09 GMT

As a caveat ( I think thats the word!?) to Theo's explanation, just remember that the Brumbies (& Wallabies under Eddie Jones) play to very prescriptive patterns, with specific sequences, options within sequences and defined roles for individual players on different parts of the field... I would be careful about just blanket copying it unless your team plays a similar style or has set plays that benefit from this, as it may in fact hinder, rather than help your team.

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

theo pieterse — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:14:25 GMT

Hi all

I attended a Brumbies practice in South Africa. I asked why Gregan runs sideways with the ball, the answer was that plyers can run off him, others can run at gaps and it is also easier to pass to a plyer moving away from you! I have tried it with my side and believe me it works!

Regards

Theo

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Nipper — Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:11:46 GMT

Thanks, Nieghorn. I also learned this from an Aussie.

I guess where it can fall apart is if the SH starts to develop a habit and take lateral steps all the time, even when you want quick ball.

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Nieghorn — Sat, 11 Jul 2009 05:20:28 GMT

Nipper, I totally agree with your reasoning for the shuffle. My previous club - in Oz - actually told their SHs to do it for that very reason. Two steps sideways got the post, x, y (or whatever you call the three ruck defenders) up and focused on him, allowing the runners in front of, or outside, them to take advantage.

Our coaching director had a system whereby forwards would situate themselves at slow ball between the 9 and 10 and run a series of 'moves' into that channel, all of which were initiated by a 'shuffling' scrum half - again, being a bit of a tempting decoy for the ruck defenders, allowing the foward pod to pick them apart or at least smash into them on their own terms.

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Nipper — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:19:21 GMT

That's as good a skill as any other, I'd say!

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Gary — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 06:59:46 GMT

Nipper,

I think you'll find a Lion retreating from a ruck 'accidently' nudged Matfield out of the way to clear the channel for Phillips to exploit ;-) Quite clever actually...

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Nipper — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:52:08 GMT

Question:

Was Philips' try on Saturday a result of the scrumhalf's technique of moving laterally to hold or attack the ruck defense?

Or was it just a recognition of the ruck defender "cheating" out and not holding his channel?

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Nipper — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:18:36 GMT

It may just be me, but I think the confusing part is the lateral steps that 9s like Phillips take, rather than the backpedal to clear the ball from the back of the "muck".

Any insight as to the reasons for the lateral steps? I believe it's to engage and hold the ruck defenders, particularly the 3rd ruck defender who's targeting the 10, but I'm not completely sure.

If this is correct, it seems like a bit of a trade-off -- you engage the 3rd ruck defender, but allow the defensive line to come up and cut down the back line's space. You create space for 10, but cut it down for the rest of the backs...

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

coachrugby — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:11:05 GMT

How often to you see a ball at the base of a ruck perfectly positioned for the scrum half to make the classical sweep pass of the floor? Ball in such a position would invariably be classed as out and the 9 would be fair game. All too often the 9 has to dig the ball out anyway. The ruck has become such a shambles that there is no alternative ; until we see the ruck replicating the definition and illustration of it in the Laws, I can see no alternative, in most cases, to the step back and pass or the pick and dart.

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Jonesy — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:32:48 GMT

Watched Mike Phillips play against The Sharks on Wednesday - his service was a lot crisper off the base and did not move away from the base proir to delivering his pass. IMHO I thought the back line was far more fluid.

Jonesy

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Nipper — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 18:15:31 GMT

Dan, can you please give a little overview of a situation where the "scoot" and pass is a preferable option, and what they're trying to achieve with it?

I think many view this as a deficiency on the 9's part, but few realize that there's a deliberate tactic involved.

That said, there's a few high-profile 9's who overplay this option a bit.

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

DanC — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 19:05:52 GMT

The step and pass has some relevence but is often a problem of poor ruck ball in the first place. A scrum half can only pass off the ground with relative clean, go forward ball.

The run and pass is effective though in certain circumstances and every scrum half should have a number of passes in their armoury.

I spent six weeks working on two bright Osprey U18 9s about two years ago. They had a firm skills base from the skills coach, but we worked on the variety of passes, with the ball coming from all sorts of places and from different pressures. What was interesting about working with these boys was their willingness to improvise and find solutions. They didn't rely on a stock pass. What they did do was pass, pass, pass and from different positions.

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

madulla1934 — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:17:57 GMT

I dont agree at all with a s/h who delays the ball to 3/4s. This will give enough time to get at attacking opponents , danger of HOSPITAL pass,not enough room for Individual SKILLS,and the worst is the ball and player BEHIND GAIN LINE Very Negative Rugby. Maurice Perera ex Sri Lanka player;

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Nipper — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:21:49 GMT

I don't quite get it either. I can see if they are playing the ball to a pod or individual forwards attacking the edge of the ruck defense -- the SH occupies the ruck defenders and creates an opportunity, creates a gap or occupies defenders there.

But when delivering the ball to 10, it seems to put an awful lot of pressure on 10, by allowing the defensive line to come up and cut down the space while 9 is prancing around (and I used to be a #9, so I use the term "prancing" in the best possible way! :D)

I wonder if it is used to hold a drift defense, as the defenders inside 10 can't drift off to help 10's inside? Just a guess...

RE: Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

Chunky Charvis — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:02:55 GMT

I completely agree.

With defences on top and space at a premium, I am always surprised when S/Hs do this.

They tend to pick the ball up, stand up, shuffle two steps and then pass. Mike Phillips is a prime example.

I have heard that it keeps defenders close round the fringes. I don't think this is a good enough reason to deny the whole backline time and space.

Help anyone?

Scrum halves taking steps before passing?

colm_ose — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 12:35:24 GMT

Hi lads and lasses,

I've been reading for a while now but I have a question that's been bothering me for a while.

Why do top level SHs take steps before passing the ball from the back of rucks/scrums?

I can understand if the ruck isn't secure/ball isn't clean but it happens far too often for me.

Surely quick ball to the backline or a forward is better use of the ball than the potential of fixing a defending forward and going through the gap? Especially in high level rugby where the defensive patterns are set in place around the breakdown very quickly. :unsure:

Mike Phillips/Blair being on the Lions tour has brought this to the fore at the minute. :laugh: