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RE: New Laws

deast — Mon, 12 May 2008 11:29:04 GMT

As a junior referee, level 7 downwards, i do not have a problem with all of the ELV's. However, collapsing a maul was penalized originally because it was deemed a dangerous act, how can it no longer be dangerous? Also allowing hands in the ruck is likely to be a case of "light blue touch paper and stand well back" when refereeing guys who have spent the last 10/20/30 years stamping on the hands of some miscreant back-rower trying to slow the ball down. It seems to me that the ELV's relating to forward play are an attempt by the Kiwis and Aussies to de-power northern hemisphere packs, one of the great sights in rugby is the rolling maul, this will now disappear because our southern hemisphere cousins can't run one.

Finally if referees at the higher levels of the game actually applied the laws of the game, instead of "managing" a game, some of these things would not be necessary, although the offence that irks refs at my level most is not covered by ELV's, if an international scrum-half ever put the ball into a scrummage straight i don't think that international and premiership referees would recognise what had happened and probably penalize it.

RE: New Laws

Ianthesmudger — Thu, 08 May 2008 15:07:59 GMT

Mauls have always been pulled down (illegally) but normally by one or two players. I share the concern over this issue as now we are going to have coaches devising training drills to instruct players (more than two I would imagine to be really effective!) to pull down the maul. Tackling and rucking techniques have developed over the last 10 years to be more and more aggressive - I fear that this will be the same with the counter-maul and coaches will be teaching players to literally destroy the maul anyway possible and that is going to mean potentially bad injuries.

RE: New Laws

Toby — Thu, 08 May 2008 13:12:33 GMT

I spoke with an experienced development coach yesterday, who expressed a great worry about injuries as a result of allowing mauls to be collapsed. Anyone else have a view on this?

RE: New Laws

Steve Bate — Sun, 04 May 2008 11:20:14 GMT

So are you saying that the ELV's will be adopted at Junior level? That's going to necessitate a fairly significant re-write of the continuum!! :w00t:

Steve

RE: New Laws

ShortFatBloke — Fri, 02 May 2008 13:37:37 GMT

My understanding is they will be adopted across the board from school through to senior level, which it should be if they are to be adopted fully in Nov 09 (let's face it - that's what's going to happen...)

RE: New Laws

ShortFatBloke — Fri, 02 May 2008 13:17:08 GMT

From the IRB website:

The following press released was issued by the International Rugby Board on Thursday May 1st, 2008.

IRB announces global trial of ELVs

The International Rugby Board Council today announced that it had approved a global trial of Experimental Law Variations (ELVs) for a 12 month period starting on August 1, 2008. The trial at all levels of the Game will involve 13 of the 23 ELVs that have been undergoing experimentation in approved tournaments around the world over the last two years.

"The Council's decision to implement a global trial of Experimental Law Variations represents an important milestone for the future of the Game. It vindicates the process that was adopted by Council in 2004 for future Law amendments. The Council congratulated the Law Project Group on its unprecedented work over the past two years," said IRB Chairman Bernard Lapasset.

"It was also agreed that the sanctions ELVs (reduction of sanctions to free kicks from penalty kicks where possible) that were not approved for global trials would be further trialled in a selected elite Northern Hemisphere competition in the 2008/09 season."

"The Southern Hemisphere will continue to play under the various ELV programme environments that exist in that part of the world at present. It would be unfair to change the playing environment under which countries in the south are currently playing in competitions such as the Super 14."

"Not one of the Council representatives was against the global implementation of an ELV programme of some description. Many of the ELVs received unanimous approval as they had clearly shown potential to be beneficial to the Game thus meriting a further trial at all levels around the world."

"The Laws Project Group had recommended a global trial of all of the ELVs but there were differing opinions between the Council Members on some of the ELVs in the area of the tackle and ruck, maul, sanctions and offside. The key point here was that the Members did not dismiss these ELVs outright but believed that further consideration and trials were necessary."

"This is particularly true of the sanctions ELVs which have not been trialled by senior Unions in the north but which have been received favourably by players and coaches that have played under them in the Southern Hemisphere."

"The Laws Project Group has been tasked to closely monitor the global trial with the assistance of its Member Unions. It will also work with the Senior Unions in the north to deliver and analyse the sanctions ELVs in an elite Northern Hemisphere Competition."

"In November 2009 Council will review all the ELVs that will undergo global trial, along with the sanctions ELVs that will undergo approved trials in specific competitions. Council will then decide at this meeting if all or any of the ELVs should be accepted into full Law," added Mr Lapasset.

ELVs to be trialled worldwide

Assistant Referees
Assistant Referees can assist referees in any manner required when appointed by a match organiser

Posts and flags around the field
The corner posts are no longer considered to be in touch in-goal except when a ball is grounded against the post

Lineout and throw
If a team puts the ball back into their own 22 and the ball is subsequently kicked directly into touch there is no gain of ground
A quick throw may be thrown in straight or towards the throwing team's own goal line
There is no restriction on the number of players who can participate in the lineout from either side (minimum of two)
The receiver in a lineout must stand 2 metres back from the lineout
The player who is in opposition to the player throwing in the ball may stand in the area between the 5 metre line and touch line but must be 2 metres away from the lineout
Lineout players may pre-grip a jumper before the ball is thrown in
The lifting of lineout jumpers is permitted

Maul
Players are able to defend a maul by pulling it down
Remove reference in Law to heads and shoulders not to be lower than hips

Scrum
Introduction of an offside line five metres behind the hindmost feet of the scrum
Scrum half offside lines (must be in close proximity to the scrum as present Law or must retreat five metres)

ELVs to be trialled in an elite Northern Hemisphere competition

Sanctions
For all offences other than offside, not entering through the gate, and Law 10 - Foul Play, the sanction is a Free Kick

Tackle and ruck
If the ball is unplayable at the breakdown, the side that did not take the ball into contact will receive a Free Kick

Maul
If a maul becomes unplayable, the team not in possession at the start of the maul receives a Free Kick

ELVs to be referred back to LPG for further analysis and possible experimentation

Lineout and throw
Incorrect throw (not straight) the sanction is a Free Kick

Tackle and ruck
Offside line occurs immediately at the tackle
Players who are on their feet can play the ball with their hands
There are two Penalty Kicks warded at the tackle and ruck - offside and foul play
Reference to unfair play added to Law 15 (tackle: ball carrier brought to ground)

Offside
Players are only put onside after a tackle when they retreat past the tackle or the ball has moved five metres away from the tackle

Kick-off and restart kicks
Incorrect kick-offs and restart kicks result in a Free Kick for the opposition

Note
Those SANZAR Unions that are currently experimenting with ELV trials in the Southern Hemisphere - in competitions such as Super 14 and Vodacom Cup - will be allowed to continue those trials including the sanctions ELVs until the end of the global trial of the approved ELVs (August 1, 2009).

RE: New Laws

DanC — Fri, 02 May 2008 12:24:26 GMT

The one law that has some significance which has gone under the radar is the fact that the non throwing hooker cannot "support" in the lineout anymore. He has to be 2m back from the front of the lineout.

Don't see a problem with the maul law and collapsing by the way. In fact I think these laws being trialled, (not the free kicks) are pretty good.

We shall see!

RE: New Laws

cjp — Fri, 02 May 2008 11:10:59 GMT

Don't hold your breath Didds!

My aging recollections of my junior school rugby cannot be said to be reliable but I seem to remember being able to collapse mauls back then (we are talking 1970s). Does that sound right? I also do not recall anyone getting hurt as a result in the games I played in.

RE: New Laws

didds — Fri, 02 May 2008 10:22:22 GMT

the short answer to that would be "Yes". Even Old Twattbaggians Vets or 7th XV....

We do however await (biut not with breath held) the variations for the youth and mini/midi game (using English nomenclature) - collasping mauls at U9? Nahh... surely?

didds

RE: New Laws

Ianthesmudger — Thu, 01 May 2008 19:28:07 GMT

The IRB has announced a global trial of the ELVs. The trail will be for a 12 month period starting 1 August 2008. The press release says that the trial "at all levels of the game" will involve 13 of the 23 ELVs that have been undergoing experimentation. Does this mean that all clubs, irrespective of their level, will be playing under these ELVs next season?

RE: New Laws

Ianthesmudger — Thu, 01 May 2008 19:27:46 GMT

RE: New Laws

Toby — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:38:18 GMT

Hi ANFY B,

You sum up many of my own thoughts better than I could.

Personally I like 30-man mud bath games, as much as hard-pitch "running back" matches. I think the determination to keep the ball "visible" and moving, preferably in the hands of the most skilful runners, may be counter productive. Certainly the "game for all sizes" element may be lost.

I don't, though, think the new laws will put off youngsters in general from playing. By this I mean there may well be fewer "fat kids", but more kids in general will take up the game, trying to emulate the likes of Habana and Williams, rather than Leonard or Le Roux. I suspect the iRB don't care about this inherent change, providing the numbers playing keeps going up.

Whether we should be bothered that specific skill levels elsewhere may diminish is subjective, but I think this would make the game more one-dimensional and/or reliant on, for instance, props who can bench press 240lb and yet don't know how to bind properly.

RE: New Laws

ANFY B — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:09:58 GMT

In general what I have seen has been quite posititve within the Super 14. I like the 5m Law at the scrum in particular as it alows for much more creativity form the back line.

However, this isnt to say that I agree with all of the alteration. I think that what has happened with the sanctions is not a positive move as there seems to be a greter willingness to get yourself pinged knowing that it's more liikely to reult in a free kick. In addition to this the laws at the breakdown seems to remove any fight for the ball on the floor which along with competitive scrums and line-outs differentiates our game from League.

I cant deny that some of these rules do put more pace into the game but i just wonder where things are going and if the consrtant rush toward speeding the gave up and simplifying it for spectators is removing some of the eliments of the game that attracted me to the game as a kid.

I think we haveto make sure that some of these rules dont filter all the way down to jumior level as, as a fat kid at 13 who was never very quick about the park I have to ask myself 'would I have started playing a game that is so loose, where my natural attributes hampered me rather than were advantagious?

RE: New Laws

iolo — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 01:36:45 GMT

Interesting article on the law changes:

http://www.rugbyheaven.co.nz/4441182a25800.html

RE: New Laws

Toby — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:51:32 GMT

This is a link to a video posted at YouTube where the Chiefs discuss the expected affect of the ELVs on the game.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9zbjo4XrkAs

RE: New Laws

Toby — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:25:07 GMT

The South Africa, New Zealand and Australia Rugby Unions (SANZAR) have adopted certain of the Experimental Law Variations (ELVs) for the 2008 Super 14 competition, which kicked off on Friday, 15th February. The objectives are to keep the ball in play longer, encourage running rugby, and so create a free-flowing, faster style of play. The intention is to make the game simpler to understand.

The variations adopted by SANZAR are:

Corner posts

Corner posts will be positioned at the outside junction of the goal and touch lines.
i) If a player in possession of the ball touches a corner post he will not be in touch unless he touches the touchline or the ground beyond the touchline.
ii) If the ball is not being carried by a player and it touches the corner post the ball will be deemed to be in touch in goal.

Clearing passes when defender outside the 22m area

If a defending player receives the ball outside their 22m area and passes, puts or takes the ball back inside the 22:

i) If the ball is then kicked directly into touch, the lineout is in line with where the ball was kicked.
ii) But if a tackle, ruck or maul is subsequently formed and the ball is then kicked directly into touch, the lineout is where the ball crossed the touch line.

Breakdown

i) Players entering the breakdown area must do so through the gate.

ii) Immediately the tackle occurs there are offside lines.

iii) The half back / clearing passer should not be touched unless he has his hands on the ball.

Lineouts

On a quick throw in, the ball can be thrown straight or backwards towards the defender's goal line, but not forward towards the opposition's goal line.

Scrum

The offside line for players not involved the scrum (forwards and the scrum half) is 5 metres behind the hindmost foot of the scrum.

Sanctions

For all offences other than offside, not entering through the gate, and foul play (Law 10), the sanction is a free kick not a penalty.

RE: New Laws

cjp — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 17:30:37 GMT

Does anyone know where things are re the ELVs? Are they going to come into force and if so when?

New Laws

Toby — Fri, 18 May 2007 17:01:47 GMT

I was talking with Barry Honan, the former Wallaby, the other day and he mentioned the new experimental law variations (ELVs) being tested in various countries at the moment.

Each July, Barry runs the annual Gold Coast Rugby Carnival in Queensland. After negotiating with the IRB’s Paddy O'Brien, all 21 of the current proposed ELVs will be trialed in all 170+ games during the Carnival this year (2007). Paddy O'Brien and Rod Macqueen will be present to discuss the ELVs with referees and coaches before the event, and also to assess their effectiveness throughout the event.

I’d be very keen to hear your thoughts or even experiences of playing and coaching the new ELVs. For example, how might / does the long lineout affect team strategy, and when or where on the pitch might a team use it? Does / would the new maul law favour defending teams, or might attacking teams have tactics to overcome the rules? Does / would allowing hands in the ruck turn the game into an 80 minute ruck “free for all”, or encourage quality passing before contact?

I’d appreciate your views.

Toby