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RE: Screen Pass

cjp — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:13:43 GMT

Nipper, You are so right re getting the defenders to head the wrong way a bit. In fact it can be as little as getting the defender's hips turned the wrong way that gives the attacker half a yard, more if the defender does not know how to correctly recover from his error (and few will outside of gridiron). Most will get their legs in a tangle trying to turn back the other way. This is a weakness in the drift defence (less so up and out - the drift where 7 takes 10 and everyone shuffles along one) as defenders are often scrambling to get to the next man along and are turned towards the sideline. This makes it vulnerable to players cutting "under". The answer is to learn to run sideways very fast without crossing up the legs (and I do not mean that odd star jumping thing one sees in warm ups). This is a technique taught to gridiron players who, at the top level can move this way at close to sprint speeds.

Recognising the defence you are facing is key. Once done plyers will know what moves to execute and where they need to get defenders' hips turned to. Turning the defender is just as important for potential receivers as it is for the ball carrier. The same issue faces wide receivers as they run their routes. Follow these links for some good tips on the subject. They are as relevant to RU/RL as to gridiron.

How to Run Effective Wide Receiver Routes

How to Make a Move on a Defensive Back: Wide Receiver Training Video

References to backpeddling are, as you may know, because the defensive back, having started say 5 yards back from the line of scrimmage runs backwards keeping a gap or "cushion" between him and the advancing wide receiver until such time as he recognises, from the wide receiver's moves, the route being run and therefore the interception point to move to. Top defensive backs can run backwards almost as fast as the receivers come forwards, and top wide reveivers have staggering 40 yrd times! The usefulness of backpeddling in rugby is probably worth a thread of its own.

RE: Screen Pass

Nipper — Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:22:01 GMT

As I understand it, a "screen pass" would be a miss pass -behind- a dummy runner.

In basketball a screen is when a player obstructs a defender's path, allowing a teammate to get open (of course, we'd never obstruct...). So, in essence, you're passing behind a dummy runner who is "screening" the defender. That's my understanding (not necessarily right!).

Also, on overs and unders, I typically teach my players when running over/under lines to draw the defender into moving one way, and changing direction sharply before they can react.

For example, on an under line, my players would run slightly outward, baiting the defender to cheat out (if they're in a drift this often works better as it entices the defender to over commit on the drift -- i.e., Luke McAlister on Sterling Mortlock's try in the recent Bledisloe match). Then they make a sharp, quick change of running angle inward/under to take the pass in the gap, on the inside shoulder of their defender.

You'd do just the opposite for an overs line.

Hope this helps.

RE: Screen Pass

cjp — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:40:21 GMT

Re Unders and Overs - Rick Campbell puts it better than I can (NB he is talking about overs and unders in an RL context):

" To put "overs" & "under" in simple terms is "over" are a straight run
followed by a run away from the ruck & "unders" being a straight run
followed by a run toward the ruck. Purpose - to make defenders come to your
runners (not the other way around) & this will allow your offence to place
people in gaps.

But, there are usually a few factors which will make these "lines" more
successful in terms of your offensive game.
- Width from the ruck, if taken as a one/two pass carry (this will help
isolate & move defenders)
- Mirrorring, if two or more runners are involved the "copying" of lines
will again manipulate defenders' movements.
- Targetting an outcome, usually the hole in behind the ruck (less
defenders, quicker p-t-b if tackled) or around the outside of the defence.
- Combination, by combining lines ("overs" to an "unders" etc) defenders
have to make spontanious decisions, therefore you are again working into
one-on-one confrontations against an unsettled defender.

training tips - when practicing "lines", teach your runners to straighten up
after performing the line. This will help them in games push upfield after
initial contact - ready for p-t-b or setting up a support.
- Always make sure your runners are squared up initially, then their next
movement is straight ahead (to engage defenders), THEN run your required
line.
- Teach your players that lines are both proactive (preset roles) & reactive
(response to defenders movements) & practice both with the use of lines to
lessen the number of tacklers confronting your runners."

I have also tried to upload a few drill illustrations to help explain.

RE: Screen Pass

Jonesy — Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:42:21 GMT

Thanks Stue.

I now coach it as such.

Jonesy

RE: Screen Pass

Stue — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:17:02 GMT

Jonesy has a perfect answer to the screen pass.

RE: Screen Pass

Stue — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:15:13 GMT

You got it!!!

RE: Screen Pass

Stue — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:12:12 GMT

Please be so kind as to give full description of what you believe are overs and unders.

Stue

RE: Screen Pass

Walsallwizard — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 00:40:50 GMT

I remember from playing basketball the use of screen players to prevent the opponents either reaching the ball player or seeing the pass, could it be this sort of pass Fly Half to outside center behind the inside center that was debated?
A screen pass as i understand it is any pass that is shielded from the opposition by the use of a players body be that his own or someone elses

RE: Screen Pass

Tight 5 — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:10:31 GMT

Screen pass, (IMHO).

Any type of pop/short pass where the ball carrier uses their body to screen the ball/pass from an opponent. This can be in contact with the opposition, such as forwards running off a lineout on a peel, or just prior to contact, such as the centers performing a switch/scissors move.

The idea being to commit the defender & decieve them as to your pass option.

Hope this helps

RE: Screen Pass

cjp — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:06:49 GMT

Should have added that in the American Football version, the offensive linemen, having "released" the pass rushers, drift out to a designated area to form a screen or wall of blockers (that's where the name comes from of course). the ball is then thrown to a running back or receiver behind this screen. the screen deals with any linebackers not drawn into the pass rush. The secondary are moved aside by wide receivers running "clear out routes" - ie dragging them to parts of the field where they will not be able to interfere.

I guess any pass made behind a screen of attacking players might fit the bill - still guessing though. On another subject, does anyone here use unders and overs or has than not really made the transition from League?

Chris

RE: Screen Pass

Scrumsrus — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 05:05:27 GMT

It takes me years to catch up with the buzz phrases that are used globally, mainly because I use my own "Descriptive" Buzz words, eg: I'd call your description - Bump & Slip. (Bump the defender & Slip the pass to a runner)

Personally I thought that a Screen Pass was very much the same as a switch or scissors pass (Yes that's an old buzz word - from a time before buzz words were called buzz words I think) :D Maybe performed at the point of contact as opposed to before it with a switch - don't the Aussies call that a fold pass. I'm sure I recall reading or hearing an Aussie coach (not sure which) talking about a Cut & Fold move. Basically a Miss pass followed by a switch pass. Sorry I digress.

What did the guys on the course settle on ?

RE: Screen Pass

cjp — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:30:32 GMT

I have only heard the term before in American Football where it is a sort of trick play. The idea is to trick the defense into thinking that a long pass is going to be thrown and then throw a short one. They are usually used against aggressive teams who like to rush the QB as the play invites such a rush and then exploits the relatively depopulated areas they have come from.

Not sure how or if this translates into RU.

Another guess is the miss pass behind the dummy runner as seem a lot in League (rather charmingly called by some a "piss-off pass"). The pass "scrapes the back" of the dummy runner's jersey on it's way to it's intended recipient.

Maybe a glossary should be included with these things! (It took me ages to work out what "overs" and "unders" were!)

Chris

RE: Screen Pass

didds — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:39:52 GMT

jonesy... you've hit upon a problem witn most areas of any expertise - sports, IT, law etc... what do the buzz words actually mean?

For me, your answer is good enough. i'd call that a circle ball... but a rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Etc.

didds

Screen Pass

Jonesy — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 15:40:42 GMT

Could somebody please describe exactly what is meant by a screen pass as per the managing contact module UKCC Level 2.

There was much debate between a number of experienced coaches/tutors on a recent course as to what a Screen Pass meant. I was under the impression that it was a pass made when making contact (on feet) with a defender and making the pass to an oncoming support player by keeping the ball away from the defender's grasp by slightly turning your body away from him thus shielding (screening) the ball.

Waht do you think?