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| What is the consensus of opinion with fellow coaches regarding the advantages of using shortened lineout options given that the defending team can now utilise a full lineout. Personally I see no advantage to the attacking team unless their hooker is an accurate thrower - this would be especially true at grass roots and age group level. Jonesy
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Supreme Being
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| presumably the advantage woud be that IF the shorted linout can win the ball against the more fully populated lineout then there is now a mi-match somewhere else on the filed - whether it be plain numerical advantage, or a size advantage (forward v back). A number 2 ball is unlikely to be any more "difficult" because the non-throwing side has 7 in their lineout after all. (??) didds
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| Didds Surely there would be no advantage to the attacking team in the scenario you describe? What are tha options? Drive from the front - defence has a numerical advantage Fast ball - from the front - difficult given the number of free lineout forwards breathing down the scrum half's neck. Initially I think that I will be putting emphasis on full line outs with quick ball off the top this season unless the defending team allows otherwise. Jonesy
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Supreme Being
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Jonesy (06/08/2008)
Didds Surely there would be no advantage to the attacking team in the scenario you describe? I wasn't overly clear was I? IF the sole major concern is to WIN l/o ball, I don;t se a no. 2 ball being any more difficult whether the oppo have matched your shortened lineout or not. Agreed what you do with No. 2 ball in this situation might be interesting, and it could well prove difficult for s/half to get the ball away as you say. The "gamble" though is whether a middle or back ball would provide this - and again, a good lineout/decent thrower may make this less of a difficulty anyway. Guess I'l have to wait to see how things pan out in reality. didds
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There is no advantage in line out terms - a small number is never going to make any gains, and second phase ball from a limited number of attacking forwards against a fully lined defence (say from a ruck) would make life very difficult for the waiting players. At a reasonable level, I see a catch and hold at the top of the catch - even a dummy to the S/H to egg the d's into running offside and having to retire. THEN pass the ball to the s/h, open pass to the additional forwards supporting the backs in midfield. The only other option I can see (especially at junior level where there is no lifting) is to thorw it in quick before the lines have been formed.
SteveJ
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| There are a number of "what if" scenarios e.g. what if the defending team cut their lineout numbers and the advantage is now with the attacking side - how does the attacjking lineout react etc? From a coaching persepective the players need to acutom themselves to a number of possibilities and react accordingly - this season could be very interesting and challenging. Jonesy
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| the lineout under the ELVs will be an interesting area to observe and coach. However it is worth remembering that the ELVs relating to the line out have been brought in to help the referee - pre ELV the ref had an awful lot to contend with...numbers in the line, pre-gripping, who was the receiver etc. and often missed things.......well that's what the refs have told me!
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| I firmly believe that you can still have variation in the lineout even under the elv's my view has always that lineouts are a simple process one that means you need to get your jumper up in front of or between the other teams options and get the timing of the throw right. Therefore with work I am going to be using as many variations this year as I did last year 5-6 & 7 man lineouts, even the odd 3 man where appropriate - for example for big throw over the top in defence. Similarly in defence I am not definately going to put all my forwards into the lineout. I can defend just as well with 5 (big jump at 2 alwasy makes things more tricky for the hooker) and I can attack with back row any midfield moves the opposition might run at me with. Finally using the maul option if a team is still locked into the catch and drive mind set I might just throw in 2 players in defence and get them to fix on and pull down the maul as soon as it gets started... I am sure there will many other options when the season gets started and I see how a) my opposition and b) the pros are handling the new laws but I am definately of the belief that lineouts can still be effective even with smaller numbers.
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